Denver Church Shooting, merged and re-named - Page 6

Denver Church Shooting, merged and re-named

This is a discussion on Denver Church Shooting, merged and re-named within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Interview with the Security Guard who stopped the BG in Colorado. http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...80/detail.html She Rocks!...

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  1. #76
    Member Array Diesel 007's Avatar
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    Powerful Video

    Interview with the Security Guard who stopped the BG in Colorado.

    http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...80/detail.html

    She Rocks!
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  2. #77
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    Hooray for her... I liked when he said " If there hadn't been someone there armed with a gun, it would have been much worst.

  3. #78
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Is this the stupidest question asked by the press??

    Question: Was the gun used her weapon or the church's weapon?
    No, we don't own weapons. It was her personal weapon that she was licensed to carry.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  4. #79
    Member Array Bonesnofoa's Avatar
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    I sure am glad this tragedy was stopped before it could escalate into a massacre. I hope more information comes out, i am left with quite a few questions about this event.

  5. #80
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GBS View Post
    Denigrating prayer is to ignore history. Pick your general, Washington, Patton, Eisenhower, all believed in the power.

    Choose your beliefs. People do what they can, prayer is one man's answer to evil, it does not mean because we can not see a tangable result that it is useless in the final outcome.
    In the here-and-now, it is very clear that praying does not stop a madman who has you in his sights from shooting you dead. FIGHTING is what does that. The philosophical questions come later--questions like, "Was I even right to try to defend my life, or should I have laid it down because, like the Amish, pacifism even to the point of self-defeat is nobler than self defense?"

    That's not a question I can get answered in this life. If others feel so sure that they will get an answer from god, should they choose to just pray but not fight, that's their choice. Am I not free to shake my head in wonder at those who just turtle-up and hope that god spares them? Plenty of people who have not been spared when they've done exactly that are filling the graveyards.

  6. #81
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    "God Guided Me And Protected Me"
    Bullets stopped the threat.

    Lots of other people were praying at the same time, I imagine. But if you subtract out the woman who FIRED SHOTS at the badguy, do you still believe that the threat would have ended when and where it did? Come on...

    I'm really starting to wish this had happened in a restaurant or a movie theater, so the ideas of prayer, miracles, etc. would not be clouding the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by P7fanatic View Post
    But I don't blame them for praying if that's what they choose to do.

    Your name is peacefuljeffrey, right?
    There's no incongruity between using the screen name "peacefuljeffrey" and what I said. Besides, does a screen name have to be taken literally as a self-descriptor, or is that just a special exception you're taking for me? People could say, "Oh, why do you call yourself 'peacefuljeffrey' when you carry a gun every day?' " but that wouldn't be a valid criticism. One can be peaceful, easygoing, non-confrontational and still be prepared for a case where someone brings violence to him. That would describe me.

    Now, I don't care if they want to pray; I am critical of those who do nothing besides pray. Look, I'm an atheist, and I don't have to apologize for that, nor for believing in my heart that no god is going to step in and plug up the shooter's barrel or strike him dead of a heart attack before he can kill anyone.

    So, if anyone out there is ever in a position to be attempting to defend me against an armed attacker, by all means, pray if you want to, but please be FIRING BULLETS at him as you do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by cphilip View Post
    And no... if you come in and I have drawn my gun I am not going give it to you as a self proclaimed "Combat veteran". I have no way to confirm this and I am too busy. And in that moment I am not going to spend any time explaining what I am doing either. And I am not going to let someone come up and want my gun nor determine when I should make my move. If you want to come to gun fight bring a gun. If you want to be a human target go right ahead. If you want to be on the security team then volunteer! We cannot be certain what happened. Her story is the most credible one at this point. His may be a bit skewed as to how he sees it.
    +1!

    Yeah, these are good points. How could anyone know for sure in the thick of this fight that the "combat veteran" is not just some mall ninja wannabe who's going to rush in half-cocked with YOUR gun?

    He could get himself killed, and then you're sued by his survivors. He could kill some innocent bystanders because he took risky shots that you would not have taken, and you get sued by their survivors. Maybe he's a FELON who just wants to be a hero, and after the fact, once he's screwed up, you get charged with providing him a firearm! Or maybe he's with the badguy, and is using a ruse to separate you from your gun!

    Either way, I agree with you: my gun is for MY protection. If you want to protect yourself or others with a gun, BRING one. But don't criticize me because you wanted to just fire wildly whereas I was assessing my shot, or perhaps playing a role you do not readily recognize or understand upon arriving at the scene.

  7. #82
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    Many of you are familiar with Neal Boortz. He is a libertarian and has a daily talk show. He has also written several books and co-authored The Fair Tax Book.

    Here is what he had to say, today on his web page, regarding the church shooting.

    http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

    "Last week there was a terrible incident at a mall in Omaha, Nebraska. Even though there were signs at entrances to the mall that guns were not permitted, a 20-year-old mentally unbalanced thug walked into the mall and started shooting. Eight innocent people lost their lives.

    After the Omaha shooting I opined that things might have been better if there had just been one person someone with a concealed weapons permit with a gun in that mall. Could that person have managed to drop the shooter and save a few lives?

    Well, predictably, my comments met with howls of outrage from the anti-gun types out there. One frequent comment was that the shooter had an assault rifle and that anyone with a concealed handgun would have been no match for this guy.

    Oops ... seems like that excuse is no longer workable. Remember the gunman who shot up two churches over the weekend? It seems that Michael Murray walked into the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado carrying a rifle. He started shooting. Pretty much like the Omaha mall incident so far. But that's where the similarities ended. Jeanne Assam is a member of the New Life Church. She was volunteering as a security guard. She had a handgun. She heard the shooting and ran to the location. There she saw Murray with the rifle. She wasted no time she didn't think twice she shot him dead with her handgun. Handgun vs. assault rifle -- predator dead. Would any of you imbeciles out there like to post some more messages now about how someone with a handgun could not possibly confront and take care of a man with an assault weapon? Well, this woman did it. So when the shooting starts you anti-gun candy asses can go cower in the corner somewhere and let a woman protect you.

    I saw other absurd comments addressing the idea of allowing concealed weapons permit holders to carry inside malls. One such comment was from someone who would not want to be in the "crossfire" that would come if there was actually someone else in the mall with a gun. Yeah .. right. Just try to tell me that whoever posted that comment would, upon hearing the first gunshots from the predator, would look around and say "Thank goodness nobody else around here has a gun." What kind of an illogical fool would be waiting to be shot by some maniac, all the while being thankful that only the predator had a gun?

    Some people just won't let logic get in the way of an emotional argument."
    "Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other. It undergoes continual change; but this change is not [an improvement]. For everything that is given, something is taken."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  8. #83
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Turning the tables with the good Lord by her side


  9. #84
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    Already seeing people (anti's) in denial in other forums. Comments such as 'What makes you think it [her gun] was concealed? She was a security guard.' I'm sure they'll also focus on her time as a police officer to reassure themselves that only 'professionals' with extensive 'professional' training could possibly be trusted with firearms. Never mind the fact that she was dismissed from her police force over 6 years ago, from what I've seen.

  10. #85
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    +1 PJ!
    To heck with that dude, who has been grandstanding toward doing effectively and per his own story nothing at all but to get himself shot.

    Agreed as well CJ.
    In fact my anti wife stated that to me last night, those with pro grade training only should be allowed.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #86
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    She's not a Security Guard!

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel 007 View Post
    Interview with the Security Guard who stopped the BG in Colorado.
    Not to pick on you in particular, Diesel, but I just want to point out that Assam is not a security guard, and the fact that she keeps being called that is either (1) the journalists don't know what they are talking about, or (2) the journalists are deliberately playing down the relevance of the private citizen with the carry license to reinforce the notion that only 'properly trained professionals' really can do anything helpful with guns.

    All the quotes from the church's pastor have consistently referred to Assam as a congregation member who does volunteer duty to help with security. Furthermore, only two of the people doing volunteer security at the 1100 service were armed...and, of course, were armed because they are licensed to carry. (Even better, Assam apparently was the one who decided they needed to increase security after the first shooting early that morning.)

    Yep, good work done by a regular old gun-toting citizen, no matter what the newsies manage to say about it...

  12. #87
    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys View Post
    Not to pick on you in particular, Diesel, but I just want to point out that Assam is not a security guard, and the fact that she keeps being called that is either (1) the journalists don't know what they are talking about, or (2) the journalists are deliberately playing down the relevance of the private citizen with the carry license to reinforce the notion that only 'properly trained professionals' really can do anything helpful with guns.

    All the quotes from the church's pastor have consistently referred to Assam as a congregation member who does volunteer duty to help with security. Furthermore, only two of the people doing volunteer security at the 1100 service were armed...and, of course, were armed because they are licensed to carry. (Even better, Assam apparently was the one who decided they needed to increase security after the first shooting early that morning.)

    Yep, good work done by a regular old gun-toting citizen, no matter what the newsies manage to say about it...
    +1 on a very good point.
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys View Post
    Not to pick on you in particular, Diesel, but I just want to point out that Assam is not a security guard, and the fact that she keeps being called that is either (1) the journalists don't know what they are talking about, or (2) the journalists are deliberately playing down the relevance of the private citizen with the carry license to reinforce the notion that only 'properly trained professionals' really can do anything helpful with guns.

    All the quotes from the church's pastor have consistently referred to Assam as a congregation member who does volunteer duty to help with security. Furthermore, only two of the people doing volunteer security at the 1100 service were armed...and, of course, were armed because they are licensed to carry. (Even better, Assam apparently was the one who decided they needed to increase security after the first shooting early that morning.)

    Yep, good work done by a regular old gun-toting citizen, no matter what the newsies manage to say about it...
    Exactly right.

    She is a private citizen with a CHL. On Sundays, she would attend one church service to worshop, stay for the other to keep an eye out for trouble. The church has a number of such individuals and they would rotate services.

    No different that any board member here with a CHL entering into an agreement with the leaders of their church that since they have a CHL and carry in church, they will provide 'security' for services and act if necessary.

    This lady is outstanding ! She was really on the ball Sunday. Not only did she suggest extra security for the day because of the earlier shooting at a missionary domitory not too far away, but she also had the presence of mind to act in a very responsible manner when the chips were down.

    As stated earlier, Bullets - not prayers - stopped the shooter. BUT... if the lady was praying as she was shooting, then I'd say her prayers were answered !

  14. #89
    Distinguished Member Array CT-Mike's Avatar
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    Turns out the shooter shot himself in the head after being hit by Assam:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071211/...urch_shootings

    I was also surprised to learn that she was fired from MPLS police for lying during an internal investigation. I don't hold that against her, everyone makes mistakes. Luckily she didn't make any on Sunday.
    "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."

    - Thomas Jefferson

    "I'm the arrow, you're my bow, shoot me forth and I will go"

    "Do not let any individual posts put a knot in your Big Boy Under-Roos"

  15. #90
    Senior Member Array ridurall's Avatar
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    I pull volunteer security duty about once every 2 months at our local church. We are not paid security guards. We have enough people that have volunteered so that we don't get it too often. While I have a CCW and always carry my weapon some of the others don't. It's just not spoken of. Perhaps it could be a liability issue. Anyway my hat is off to Assam for doing what was necessary.
    Life member NRA since 1983
    I carry a Kimber Ultra Carry II in a Crossbreed SuperTuck. My wife carries a Walther PPS .40 w/Crossbreed holster.

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