Help Joe Horn

This is a discussion on Help Joe Horn within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by bandit383 Based on the facts as presented in the media...I voted yes. If the facts presented in court/grand jury are different, will ...

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Thread: Help Joe Horn

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    Based on the facts as presented in the media...I voted yes. If the facts presented in court/grand jury are different, will reconsider.

    I actually think his actions did more harm to our CCW cause than helped...a loose cannon.
    Ditto.

    Should Joe Horn be prosecuted?
    Yes 32% 3460
    No 68% 7498
    Total Votes: 10958

    - 10958
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  3. #17
    Member Array riverkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    Based on the facts as presented in the media...I voted yes. If the facts presented in court/grand jury are different, will reconsider.

    Rick
    The media is highly unreliable in these matters.
    Old testament....Shooting to Live 1942
    http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/...ng_to_live.pdf
    Newer testament... Kill or Get Killed 1976/1987
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  4. #18
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    I'm siding with the minority here. I voted "yes" for prosecution.

    Property is not worth a human life.

    That's just my opinion, of course, but the laws in 49 of the 50 states agree.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  5. #19
    Member Array abuttermilk's Avatar
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    How about principle?
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

  6. #20
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    'Zactly.

    There's more going on in that situation than just "theft of property."
    And I'm not really sure I even agree that personal property is not worth defending with force.
    Last edited by rocky; December 11th, 2007 at 06:56 AM. Reason: comment not needed.

  7. #21
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    I'm torn in the issue. Knowing that Texas law is different that everywhere else, it is a gray area. We can all say that property isn't worth a life... but that is something that the bad guys should consider. It isn't worth losing your life to steal someone else's property.

    That said, the media can't really skew what was said in the 911 call. He didn't say he was going to try to stop the burglars. He didn't say he was going to try to detain them until police arrived. He didn't say he was going to see which way they were fleeing. He said he was going to kill them. At that point there had been no threat to his person at all, yet he had decided to kill them. Thus, self defense doesn't apply.

    I honestly cannot say that I hold his actions against him. He did what needed to be done, and I won't mourn the death of someone that was killed while committing a felony. But, I'm not going to pat him on the back and tell him that he made the right decision either.

    I just hope that this has made people stop and think about what they say to the police, what actions they decide to take, and how they would actually handle such a situation.
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  8. #22
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    The question is a little flawed as it asks if Joe Horn should be prosecuted. I have to answer yes to that but whether or not should he be found guilty is a question for the jury after hearing all the facts. I really think that this is one for a jury to decide rather than the court of public opinion and knee jerk reactions. Prosecuted and found guilty are two different things and two different processes.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    He's proved a point for those who oppose 2nd Ammendment rights and has hurt us all in the process. Just watch as events unfold.

  10. #24
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    Another NO

  11. #25
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    Another big fat NO

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    I say NO.

    One person commented that he thought Joe Horn should be prosecuted but he wasn't sure if Horn should be found guilty.

    If you don't want him found guilty then don't prosecute him.

    Let the message be that criminals are the ones who should be damn careful.
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

  13. #27
    New Member Array Thunder 9's Avatar
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    voted NO.
    69% no
    31% yes

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abuttermilk View Post
    How about principle?
    I homicide were allowable/lawful for 'principle' then there would be a stack of dead bosses, coworkers, customers, commuters who cut us off in traffic, school lunch ladies who serve up terrible tasting nutritionally unsound food, coaches who don't play 'the right' kids, refs who don't make 'the right' calls, police who don't pull over for speeding 'the right' guy, etc. ad infinitum.

    People have been killing people over and on 'principle' since the dawn of time forward up to current with kids shooting each other over smudged Pumas and adults trying shooting because they don't like that a woman dumped them...

    How Different This Could Have Been...
    December 5th, 2007, 04:52 AM
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ad.php?t=36838

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    Based on the facts as presented in the media...I voted yes. If the facts presented in court/grand jury are different, will reconsider.

    I actually think his actions did more harm to our CCW cause than helped...a loose cannon.

    Rick
    I can sympathize with Mr. Horn and his reaction since my home has been burglarized twice, but I have to agree with Bandit on voting yes. I can't support what he did simply because the burglars were "BG's" and illegal aliens... even if many/most people believe they deserved it. From listening to the 911 tape and reading the police reports, he placed himself in harms way and had already decided BEFORE he left the safety of his home that he was going to "kill 'em", to quote Mr. Horn himself. He also shot them as they were running away, NOT to defend himself from imminent attack.

    If they had tried to enter his home or had attacked him in some way, I'd support his actions. Also, if I were on the Grand Jury that hears the case, I could change my mind if more facts are disclosed to support his actions. However, as it now stands, I can't agree with his use of deadly force to stop two burglars exiting a neighbors house while he had an opportunity to remain inside his home and was not under direct and/or immediate threat of harm himself.

    OTOH, I don't agree that it will affect CC laws or public opion about them any more than the mall shooting in Omaha. Joe Horn used a shotgun to shoot two burglars - whether we agree on his justification for doing it or not - which is a completely different subject (and area of debate by anti gun groups) than handguns or concealed carry.

    I just hope that those who support Mr. Horn's actions don't feel that EVERY use of a gun by someone for "self-defense" has to be supported whether we agree or not. If so, we risk becoming the same mindless zombies many anti's are that believe since BG's use guns to do bad things, ALL guns (and their owners) are bad.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  16. #30
    Member Array abuttermilk's Avatar
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    "Property is not worth a human life"
    CORRECT!!!!!! And the more this kind of stuff happens and good people stand up for their rights, the perps will find this out and turn to another line of work(crime).
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

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