Help Joe Horn - Page 3

Help Joe Horn

This is a discussion on Help Joe Horn within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; To add one more comment, here's my take: 1) none of us were there; when mr. Horn headed out the door, they were already headed ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    To add one more comment, here's my take:

    1) none of us were there; when mr. Horn headed out the door, they were already headed towards his house.

    2) With all of the home invasions we have had in the past couple of years where entire familys were wiped out (remember the connecticut family?) because the criminals could care less about human life, are you willing to take that chance "over property"?

    3) When you discuss "property" understand that property may be irreplaceable. What if the property in question was a prized possession, say an original firearm that was one-of-a-kind, or an original 1911 owned by John Browning himself? Sorry guys, they are gonna take a ride to the promised land....

    What I am trying to say, is that there are all kinds of circumstances here. What must be said though, aside from the armchair lawyers and bleeding hearts is that evil in any form must be confronted at any cost. I'll bet from now on, criminals think twice before they rob houses on that street again...
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry


  2. #32
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    69 (no) to 31 (yes) at 12:25 pm central timeTuesday
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array craze's Avatar
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    Can't say I know what the laws in Texas are or if Mr. Horn acted completely within those laws, and I have no say nor should I have any say in wheather or not he is prosecuted.
    Haveing said all of that I voted no. I would love to have someone like Mr. Horn as my next door neighbor. Texas is a better place because he did what he did.
    "Some people go to bed with Lucifer..........then cry, cry, cry when they don't greet the day with God."

  4. #34
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edr9x23super View Post
    To add one more comment, here's my take:


    3) When you discuss "property" understand that property may be irreplaceable. What if the property in question was a prized possession, say an original firearm that was one-of-a-kind, or an original 1911 owned by John Browning himself? Sorry guys, they are gonna take a ride to the promised land....

    ...
    I have an A H Fox 12 ga. double barrel made in 1909. When I was 13 my grandfather went into our house while no one was home and placed it behind the door of my bedroom. Two days later he entered the hospital knowing that he probably would not leave it alive because of cancer. That was 44 years ago. You talk about a priceless one-of-a-kind gun or object, that one is to me. If someone stole it I would certainly feel like killing them or at least beating the whatever out of them but is it worth taking a life for? No, as much as I cherish that gun it isn't worth killing a person over.

  5. #35
    Member Array abuttermilk's Avatar
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    FN1910,
    It would be sold for drug money or used in future robberies. If you caught the thug stealing it and you shot him(in possession of a firearm), you would be stopping future robberies and a drug user.
    Those are facts. You can't change them until YOU stand up for YOUR rights and quit giving stuff to the criminals.
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Something like that as you describe FN I would have insured toward _replacement cost_(!) and I'd have it stored in a primo secure container/safe, that was hidden.
    Or I'd case it up and walk into my local bank and ask for a size long safety deposit box and keep it there disassembled and in the safest of hands on behalf of grandpa.

    Crap I can afford to lose and don't care much about is uninsured/self insured laying around the house while things that are irreplaceable they are held close to the vest.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  7. #37
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    Voted yes. Silly me, I think murderers should be prosecuted, even if the murder victims were undesireable characters. Continuing my silliness, I'd prosecute a rapist who raped an illegal alien with a criminal record, too. The status of the victim is NOT justification for killing them, period.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Whether you support him or not, Joe Horn should be indicted. If you believe what he did was wrong then there is no question as to why. If you support Mr. Horn you should want him indicted also! IIRC "Jeopardy" does not attach at the grand jury. If the grand jury votes "no bill" I am not aware of anything that would prevent some D.A. that is on the Brady's Christmas card list from taking a shot at him later. If he is indicted and goes to trial and is found not guilty, that is where it ends. There would be nothing more they could do, no matter how much they may want to.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  9. #39
    Ex Member Array FN1910's Avatar
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    mcp - I think that you are correct that just because a grand jury doesn't indict right now doesn't mean they can't later. Until he goes to trial and is found not guilty he will always be looking over his shoulder.

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    News reports do not constitute fact. All I have is a presumably uncensored (exception of address and phone number) 911 recording released on the internet of all places, to rely on, and it is quite damning. There are 5 people on this planet that know for sure what happened in that 4 second time frame, and 2 of them are unable to talk about it...ever.

    If he does get charged, I only hope that he gets a plea offer before it even goes to the jury that amounts to house arrest and probation.

    If the info that the news has posted is accurate, unbiased (yeah, right) and complete, Mr. Horn did wrong. Granted he stopped two criminals from continuing their career, and in doing so, saved the taxpayers a fair chunk of money, but the end did not justify the means.

    Two dark skinned males running through upper middle white suburbia with the police well in route, they would have been caught.

    The only positive note to this whole pile of doo, as well as the other recent incidents...All the other career criminals that watch the news/read the papers are seriously going to have to start to rethink their targets and do more ground work because it is becoming evident that the people are getting tired of being victims.

  11. #41
    Member Array pjw315's Avatar
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    I had to vote yes on what I heard from the 911 call. In my opinion he made the community look bad. He was repeatedly told to stay in his house and not do anything. He was just itching to test the law and kill someone. It was not even his own property he was defending. Plus there was already a plain cloth officer onsite Joe did not need to take the matter in his own hands.

  12. #42
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    I think we are answering this issue based on our perception of right and wrong moreso than the facts of the case, since we really don't know all the facts.

    But, in principle, I find that I don't have a problem with defending my property with deadly force, DEPENDING ON WHAT'S AT RISK.

    If the property at risk is low cost, and replaceable then it's no big deal to me, I'm not inclined, in principle, to shoot someone over that. But if that property is my dog, I would very much like it to be within my right to defend the life of my dog with what ever level of force is required. Not that I equate a dog with a human, not at all, but my dog, to me, is far more than mere property.

    The same goes for the more personal, cherished property, I believe we should be allowed to protect it period. I don't see this as equating the value of life to the value of property. I see it as protecting the things that are precious to me, and the perpetrator needs realize that if he attempts to take that from me, he is placing his life in danger. If he understands that, I won't have to protect my property.

    However, as I understand it, the law, except maybe in Texas, does not allow the use of deadly force to protect property per se. However, if I confront the BG who has my property and he makes a fight of it, I have the right to defend myself and as a secondary issue, I am protecting my life AND my property.

    However, the issue in the subject case is, in principle, should we have the right to use deadly force to protect property that is not ours?
    I'm too young to be this old!
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  13. #43
    Member Array abuttermilk's Avatar
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    pjw315,
    A police dispatcher/911 operator may give advice but is not an officer in all of my career. That person is not on the scene and shold be told that they would be liable if they gave the wrong advice and the person calling was killed. Advice does not carry the weight of law.
    Horn did not know there was a plain clothesed officer on the scene as the officer did not have a chance to identify himself and in fact the officer was hidden in his vehicle for fear that Horn would think he was the getaway driver and shoot him also. Good thinking on that officers part!! About all he could do was activate any lights on his vehicle and hold his badge up where Horn could have seen it.
    Also, never forget that a persons' thinking changes as he or she gets older and realizes that he/she needs to handle things differently because they cannot handle things physically as they used to.
    If we all had neighbors such as Mr. Horn, crooks would be out of business and our world would be a much safer place.
    Hopefully, this situation will make other states look at their laws and realize they are protecting the crooks instead of the good citizens and bring about a change for good.
    For way too long, government, be it local, state or federal, has operated on the assumption that the general public is too dumb to take care of itself and made laws that have taken away our rights as citizens. We, as citizens, have been too apathetic and our resulting loss of rights and priviliges has let a select few determine what is right or wrong.
    Witness the Congress during the vote on immigration reform earlier this year. Members of Congress were greatly upset and angered that the people spoke and shut them down, from their own agendas. Angered at the people they work for!! The arrogance of those Congressional members angered me to the point of doing something about it as we all should do. If you are an employer and an employee gets angry and pitches a fit, do you tolerate it or bring that employee to an understanding of how the cow eats the cabbage?
    It is time to change some faces in Congress, and in the process, get people in their who will return our rights and protect the ones we still have.
    As I said in another post, we are on the same team, we are just not rowing the same direction.
    It is important that we support each other and present a unified front to the jury pool out there and counteract the media that would take our rights away.
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

  14. #44
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    the officer did not have a chance to identify himself and in fact the officer was hidden in his vehicle for fear that Horn would think he was the getaway driver and shoot him also. Good thinking on that officers part!!
    On this, we absolutely agree. The officer, and everyone else in the area, was in danger because of the reckless acts of Mr. Horn - an untrained person acting out of fear and anger, who decided that his own righteousness was worth more than the lives of anyone in his vicinity. Horn did not know all the facts, he was not in danger, he was not in the confines of his home, he did not know the people who owned the property he was so riled up about... and yet he fired a shotgun multiple times in a residential neighborhood in the middle of the afternoon. Thank whoever it is that you want to that the officer or another innocent wasn't shot and killed - would you still be applauding Horn's actions if they had?
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  15. #45
    Member Array abuttermilk's Avatar
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    I think that as officers, we can both agree that these things happen in milliseconds. Over and done with in 3 seconds or something of that nature. The cop pulled up just in time to see it happen.
    Who says it was reckless? Sounds to me like he was exercising great gun control because he didn't shoot anyone else.
    Various posts point out that he was in danger and as I said earlier, Texas law does not require us to cower in our homes while crime is happening around us.
    It also sounds to me like you are saying that only the "trained" persons should have guns. Well, what kind of training? Some of these IPSC shooters are much more highly trained than lots of officers and are super good at their hobby. I would love to have some of those guys as backups if I needed them because they are well trained and disciplined and can shoot so accurately. Way more training with a gun than I as an officer have ever had. Wouldn't you feel much better when leaving to go to work, with a stay at home spouse, if you knew these kinds of folks were around to help her if she needed them. Where do you think the "militia" would come from in the event of a major problem in this country. The only problem is that is not an organized militia and things would go south as they did in New Orleans.
    Also, thank goodness he was shooting a shotgun with a much more limited range than a rifle or handgun and with the stopping power that a shotgun has. The situation was over quickly. We all know as officers that our sidearm is the last resort if we have the option of a shotgun or a rifle.
    As I said in an earlier post, we are all on the same team, we are just not rowing the same direction and our efforts should be to educate and encourage the jury pool by supporting and presenting a united front.
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

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