Help Joe Horn

This is a discussion on Help Joe Horn within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I wasn't commenting about his firearms training so much as I was his "use of deadly force" training. Was he aware of his backstop and ...

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Thread: Help Joe Horn

  1. #46
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    I wasn't commenting about his firearms training so much as I was his "use of deadly force" training. Was he aware of his backstop and beyond? Did he care? Did he have communication with responding officers? Did he know where they would be coming from and what they'd look like? Obviously, the answer to some of these questions is a resounding NO.

    And I do advocate training for people who want to carry firearms for self defense - I think they should be instructed on the legal uses of lethal self defense, as well as the laws pertaining to the firearms they wish to own.

    Also, I ask again, how would you feel if Horn had killed the undercover officer, thinking he was part of the burglar's crew? Or an innocent bystander accross the street? It's fairly obvious that Horn was in a fairly agitated mental state...

    I hope no one is taking my displeasure with Horn as support for criminals, for that is certainly not the case. I am also not advocating "hiding and cowering" as a method of protecting yourself, or anyone else's life. I simply think that this man, in this case, was well outside the bounds of self-defense, and that he intended to (and did, in fact) commit murder.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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  3. #47
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    It is plain to see that the law in Texas has no meaning to several of you. No matter what you say, and you say we are a nation of laws, you refuse to accept that Horns' actions are covered specifically by Texas law.
    As far as I am concerned, it is counter-productive to have this conversation any longer. I believe that the argument has been well fleshed out on both sides but only one side is paying attention to the laws of the State of Texas.

    Let me re-iterate that it is important that we all ,as gun owners and CCW'ers, pull together and present a united front to the voter and jury pools of our country and while it is important for us to debate matters, it is more important that we educate these pools and begin again a "buzz" around the country that supports our rights and priviliges as the good people of this country.
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

  4. #48
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    Just Voted: No=85% Yes=15%

    Armed, capable, motivated citizen takes action.

    Two criminal aliens dead.

    What's the problem?

    All due respect to LEOs I am not moved by hypothetical comments about what "could have" happened. LEOs job is to police not protect.

  5. #49
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    abuttermilk - fair enough, but I am not convinced that he is legally covered though I am not sure that he isn't covered, either. There are a few specific things mentioned in the statutes - night time, asked to protect the property, etc - that Mr. Horn did not fall under. Again, I'm not saying he is or isn't legal, as my readings have him in a bit of a gray zone... What I am saying is that he was wrong, morally, in his intent, even if his actions turn out to be covered.

    But, I respect your opinion and your feelings that the ends may justify the means in this case.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    I'm torn in the issue.

    I honestly cannot say that I hold his actions against him. He did what needed to be done, and I won't mourn the death of someone that was killed while committing a felony. But, I'm not going to pat him on the back and tell him that he made the right decision either.
    Ditto

    The way I tend to judge actions is the neighbor test:
    Would I want the fellow living next door to me?
    This one could go either way.

  7. #51
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    When I first heard about this I said I was going to let a jury decide it after hearing all the facts and I stick by that.

  8. #52
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    Nowhere have i seen it mentioned that the two dead perps were illegal aliens who made their living from dope dealing and robbery. The gene pool is cleaner for their demise. Having said that, i must also say that Mr. Horn is not the smartest guy out there. He could have held the scumbags for the police. No, i do not want Mr. Horn prosecuted for his actions.

  9. #53
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    Sig 210, it's been mentioned, and we agree that it is no great loss to society that these folks are no longer with us. However - Horn didn't know anything about their lives, so it can't really be considered when weighing his actions.

    Also, what about the next guy who kills two "burglars" at the neighbor's house who turn out to be the neighbor's kids who locked themselves out? Will we applaud their death as well?
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  10. #54
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    Ok here is a far stretch but I guess it could happen. What if his neighbor was involved in that reality show "It takes a thief" and Mr. Horn takes matters into his own hand like he did and killed 2 innocent people. It was not his own property he was protecting that’s where I think he went wrong on this.

  11. #55
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    "It was not his own property he was protecting that’s where I think he went wrong on this."

    The law in TX has a provision for the protection of the property of another. You forgot the part where the criminals were on Horn's property when he challenged them.

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig 210 View Post
    "It was not his own property he was protecting thatís where I think he went wrong on this."

    The law in TX has a provision for the protection of the property of another. You forgot the part where the criminals were on Horn's property when he challenged them.
    He didn't "challenge them"...he shot them... period. A very important distinction.

    Common guys and gals...I do not personally think this is defensiveable no matter how you slice it. Race, illegal, whose property etc, etc...we can argue till the cows come home...he had a vendetta...and took his emotional and personal feelings out on the crime as he knew it...when we interject personal feelings into it is where we fail. Just ask Assam from Colorado...it wasn't personal...it was a duty and commitment.

    Rick

  13. #57
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    "He didn't "challenge them"...he shot them... period.


    How about the tape: "Move and you are dead."

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