This is a discussion on Protectors. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; A store clerk in a town near my city was killed along with a customer last night. I continue to try and motivate the non ...
December 16th, 2007 08:29 PM
A store clerk in a town near my city was killed along with a customer last night. I continue to try and motivate the non carriers that I know, and remind them that you never know when you will need a weapon. My heart goes out to the clerk who was a single mother with three kids. We as responsible carriers are protectors and I thank each and everyone of you because I know that if I am not there and my family is in harms way I feel confident that no shooter here will hesitate to defend fellow citizens. Story available on Statesville Record and Landmark website.
Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....
December 16th, 2007 08:39 PM
Sad, very sad indeed. Oh to get folks to wake up to having at least a chance to defend themselves from these scum who prey on innocent people.
As it involves a shooting event I have moved it over to the personal defense news area.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
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December 16th, 2007 09:39 PM
We arent all protectors. All though many here are, probably as many arent.
Many here will argue that they will only defend themselves or their familys and all others be danged...due to fear. Fear of getting killed, leaving their familys with only one parent, fear of getting sued, fear of being inconvienced in one way or another.Fear of something, whatever it may be.
To be a "protector"is a calling I think and not everyone is suited to it.I tend to live the Golden Rule...if it were my family and I wasnt there, how would I want someone to act on my behalf. If I am doing what is right, and get whacked in the process, I'd rather be judged for trying and failing than be judged for not acting. I dont beleive in co-incidences, I beleive that everything happens for a reason.
Its a tragic event for sure.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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December 16th, 2007 09:44 PM
Statesville is just up the road from here (CLT). The story I read made it sound as if that ******* shot the clerk after he took the cash..she was a single mom in her young 20s with three little ones..
December 16th, 2007 09:53 PM
I know this has been discussed in another post (regarding whether or not one should get involved on a strangers' behalf) but we ae well past the point where we can safely assume that if we just give the criminal what they require, they will leave us alone. Time and time again, we see that the criminal thinks nothing at all of taking human life during the commission of the most petty of crimes. This is why we cannot allow such acts to go unchallenged; I understand the need to look out for your own first, and I would be inclined to do just that, but if I were in a convenience store faced with a similar dilemma, i would be compelled to act, because you cannot assume anymore. the only thing you can do is be sure that you go on the offensive when possible and take them out as quickly and brutally as they would have done to you.
After all, they deserve only the best you have to give.......
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry
December 17th, 2007 06:45 AM
It's funny how a lot here refer to someone that carries as a "sheep dog", yet some wouldn't help. If that is the case then they are not "sheep dogs" at all!
That is a very good point to think about. I would never say if you carry that you have a responsibility to protect or act like a LEO, but on the same hand isn't everyones responsibility as citizens to try and stop a crime if the situation arises?
if it were my family and I wasn't there, how would I want someone to act on my behalf.
If you saw your neighborers house being robbed would you not call the police? Or would you not call as long as "your" house in safe?
Sorry for high jacking this thread.
Ruger LC9 (when the girlfriend lets me carry her gun)
"First Duty is To Remember"
December 17th, 2007 08:56 AM
If my family is with me, that is my 1st duty...if I am by myself, then duty to my fellow man is on...alot of armchair quarterbacking here..each situation will require assesment and action so it's hard to say what you will do, until it happens to you, you won't know, you can only assume. We'd all like to think we would do the right thing and I suspect many of us will.
December 17th, 2007 08:58 AM
"It's funny how a lot here refer to someone that carries as a "sheep dog", yet some wouldn't help. If that is the case then they are not "sheep dogs" at all"
More like neutered lap dogs.
December 17th, 2007 09:17 AM
Very good Point
I agree with Hotguns. If my family was someplace where a BG went to shooting, and there were Concealed Carry folks there but did nothing while my family was shot and/or killed, I would have some problems with that. Much like the Security Guard at the Church Training Ground who had a gun, but would not give it to the ex-military guy or would not back up the lady who did take the shooter down.
When I orginally started posting here my mindset was that I was there for my family only. Well since then I have seen and heard a lot of information about incidents that have caused me to re-think some things.
1. When a shooter enters a place with the intentions of shooting, not robbing, this is in effect an "Ambush". Especially if there is one or more shooters. Military tactics teach the only way to get out of an ambush is to charge it, using cover of course, to bring pressure on the shooters positions, rather than wait to be cut down at the shooters convinenience.
2. Best defense is an offense. One reason I carry a back-up gun besides the reason of just having one to start with is the fact that I can hand it off to my wife who doesnt carry, and allow me to move into a position to engage an active shooter. She does shoot but just chooses to not carry.
3. If it is a robbery, no shots fired, no one hurt, I think I will hunker down with the family, gun ready, and allow the robber to do what they have to do and leave. However the minute someone is in danger, it is time to act.
I may talk bravely now and might even act differently in different situations but I train to respond properly, move tactically, and be responsible. I hope I never have to do any of this but I want to be prepared.
December 17th, 2007 10:02 AM
Chuckle chuckle...big difference running across a mall or being in a small convenience store with a gun potentially pointed at you (uh, can I say "threat"...note the customer shot as well...oops).
Originally Posted by Sig 210
I guess I could chock it up to internet chest pounding because saving the world is not as black and white as some would like it to be.
Lastly...most I suspect do not have tactical experience under stress, but have very limited firearms training (e.g., range at a static bullseye target, every 6 months maybe). I guess it boils down to "A man has got to know his limitations". So, although chest pounding sounds magnanimous, the realities are not...it is life and death.
December 17th, 2007 10:37 AM
But sheepdogs have THEIR flock. MY flock is my family and the folks at my church. If I have opportunity to act on behalf of someone else's flock, great! But that's above and beyond the call of duty.
Give me time, though. I may come around.
December 17th, 2007 11:18 AM
But, if the report is true, that he shot her after she handed over the money, then someone is in danger as soon as he pulls out a gun. I'm sure he didn't give any warning before he shot...except to pull out the gun in the first place. Hard call to make from behind a computer screen.
Originally Posted by jeephipwr
The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD
December 17th, 2007 06:11 PM
If he is in the same room with me, with a gun, he is still a threat!!! Doesn't mean that I would shoot him leaving, but, if he even look like he is about to turn around, well then, he is going down!!!
Originally Posted by CopperKnight
Ruger LC9 (when the girlfriend lets me carry her gun)
"First Duty is To Remember"
December 17th, 2007 06:34 PM
"Lastly...most I suspect do not have tactical experience under stress, but have very limited firearms training (e.g., range at a static bullseye target, every 6 months maybe). I guess it boils down to "A man has got to know his limitations". So, although chest pounding sounds magnanimous, the realities are not...it is life and death."
Tactical training under stress: WOW!!!! How about the real thing? Does that count where you come from? Some of us have been there and done that.
December 17th, 2007 06:38 PM
These days one never knows what will happen. Some of these guys get what they want, then decide it is best to leave no witnesses and will kill anyone around anyway, or they just want to know what's like to kill somebody. One dirt ball around here set two women on fire that worked in an insurance agency, later he killed two gas station attendants as they changed the price sign. Few years ago another got the cash from a local branch, then shot the bank clerks anyway. If you are pulling a crime against me and have a gun, first chance I get, I'm putting holes in you until you fall. As far as I'm concerned you are a deadly threat to me, as long as you are in my presence and holding a gun. Having it you hand, means I assume you intend to use it at some point.
Will you get involved, just because you have a pistol on your side. As others have said it all depends on the situation. I'll count on my skills to defend myself but I'm not a LEO, nor have I been trained like one. Just like I can hand someone a bandaide, but I'm no doctor. Trying to be helpful these days can leave you open to being sued if everything does not turn out perfect. Having a gun and a CCW permit does not deputize you or turn you into a super hero. If you have the skills and the will, great
You would have to make a very quick judgment of the circumstances and react
as you see fit. Can't say I would or wouldn't come to the rescue of a stranger, it all depends. I've helped some folks on the roadside, then driven right by others. It all depends.
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