This is what harms our cause
This is a discussion on This is what harms our cause within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I think this is what the CCW system is all about. Anyone that has a propensity for causing this type of trouble gets weeded out ...
December 29th, 2007 02:53 PM
I think this is what the CCW system is all about. Anyone that has a propensity for causing this type of trouble gets weeded out during the back ground checks. People just don't normally snap out of nowhere and start shooting with out having a history of problems in their younger days. I bet there is no way this person could have ever gotten a permit. He just reinforces the need for carry. I don't know if you can carry in Hooters where he was but since I don't imbibe it wouldn't be a problems with me. I appreciate states having rules of not carrying while drinking but I don't like the idea of not being a drinker and then not being able to carry in a place that serves booze. I think as long as you can blow a zero on the breath-O-meter you should be able to carry concealed.
Life member NRA since 1983
I carry a Colt Delta Elite 10mm in Milt Sparks VM2 with 2 extra magazines on my belt. This is normally worn on a belt under my bib overalls and works great for me. My wife carries a Walther PPS .40 w/Crossbreed holster.
December 29th, 2007 03:16 PM
Not really. I simply disagree with the suggestion that upstanding citizens are contributing to the political evisceration of rights. When it comes to the irrational fears of the irrational, they are the major factor.
Originally Posted by bandit383
The goal should be twofold: decrease of the ability of criminals to do what they do; and, increase of the ability of upstanding citizens to defend themselves against criminals. The goal of such folk is something else entirely, and it has nothing to do with defense against criminals.
The simple fact is this: in the presence of an upraised knife, the ability to defend against it with superior weapons and tactics is a good thing, no matter how anyone attemps to "spin" the reality. In the case of lethal weapons, the actual, practical ability to defend against such weapons is about the only thing that makes a difference, if in fact surviving is the goal.
Frankly, I believe that those who push for the disarmament of innocents desire death ... for others and, ultimately, themselves. Fear that.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
December 29th, 2007 03:41 PM
. Some states have more, some less...but estimate 1.5M CCWs in the the country...versus the 200+M voters...at best 1% CCWs.
But the CCW'ers are a force to be rekoned with. That 1% knows what they believe and are not willing to let some politician tamper with their right to self defense.
And that voice continues to get louder all of the time.
I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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December 29th, 2007 04:20 PM
For starters, IIRC from my last trip to TN, he was illegal to have a firearm in an establishment which serves alcohol. Strike one.
Probably drinking and carrying. Strike two.
Shooting over a tab? Strike three.
Not a super citizen by any measure.
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
December 29th, 2007 04:24 PM
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson
"Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage
GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself
December 29th, 2007 07:55 PM
Here is a more detailed report.
Police say the suspect was last seen leaving on foot. He is described as a white male to be 25 years of age, 6'0'', 180 lbs with slender build. Officials say he is also missing his front teeth and is wearing large gauge earrings.
Raising children is like being pecked to death by a chicken every day.
December 29th, 2007 08:32 PM
Missing front teeth-----sounds like a meth-head, shooting over a bar tab---sounds like a meth-head.
Originally Posted by waynesan
An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.
December 29th, 2007 10:05 PM
I think it is a good opinion...but speculation nevertheless.
Originally Posted by P7fanatic
I do not agree with the media bashing...maybe the commentaries...but in this case and many others (including the home defenses), they attempt to report the facts without speculation. What I find a bit disengenuous is everytime something like this happens...somehow it gets twisted to being a democrat, liberal, media fault instead of attempting to understand the noner views and how we can best mintigate those views...know thy enemy mentality.
I will speculate that he had a CCW...but more importantly...the noners will speculate that he had. As for a drinking establishment, don't know TN laws...in OK, it is ok as long as food is served.
December 29th, 2007 10:27 PM
In TN a permit is required for carry either OC or CC so unless he had a permit he was illegal. In TN carry in a place that serves alcohol is forbidden either way.
Since the gave a description of a backpack but no car it sounds like he was hitchhiking which would seem to point to no permit but that is only my speculation. I took it that he went outside and started firing back into the place which means that he wasn't inside when shooting, so did he pull the gun from the backpack, did he have it while inside, did he have a car and get the gun from a car? Lots of unknowns but a stupid act that has left at least one dead. Hopefully the guy will be caught and burned.
December 30th, 2007 01:11 AM
6'and 180 does not equate to a "slender build".
The description is out of whack at either the height, weight, or body type description.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
December 30th, 2007 01:33 PM
+1, he was probably on drugs and then added alcohol and anger to it. i hope they catch him soon.i feel so bad for the man that was killed for no reason at all.just shows we never know what may happen at any time on any day.
Originally Posted by SleepingZ
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”
― Thomas Paine
December 30th, 2007 02:35 PM
That weight was 150-160...
I think that's pretty light.
I really don't understand all this hand-wringing of how
this goober "hurts our cause".
Like you guys think he was licensed?!
This is the reason I carry.
Also the reason I don't go to bars.
December 30th, 2007 04:24 PM
I'll answer that since I brought it up...do you think you could of done anything since he was shooting into the building from outside (I'd be ducking for cover first)? Finally, do you think that the noner would think that if all guns were restricted...this might not have happened (cause and effect)?
Originally Posted by TravisABQ
December 30th, 2007 04:27 PM
This is exactly the reason why I carry.
December 30th, 2007 05:09 PM
Well, as most forums absolutely prohibit the slightest whif of breaking the law, I'm not about to suggest that I would be illegally carrying in a bar. But, yes, in places where that is legal, someone COULD have returned fire. Why not?
Originally Posted by bandit383
If bullets can come in, they can go out.
I have not yet met an anti gun person who is capable of distinguishing between a felon who has spent a lifetime in violent crime, from a citizen who arms himself in self defense.
No.... I mis-spoke....
Come to think of it, the ones I've met seem more willing to give a chronic criminal sympathy than a law abiding citizen with a gun.
The criminal has suffered abuse as a child, drug addiction, dropped out of school, racism.... boo hoo, not his fault.
Since a citizen with a gun presumably has been raised with "civilized" ethics and, having chosen to be dangerous, that person is much scarier to them.
In their world, a criminal is a victim; you and I as functional members of society are oppressors, and in some sideways, twisted fashion, pretty much deserve anything someone of the "victim" class may do to us.
They also seem convinced that if Congress stands up to the big bad NRA, bans all firearms, 300 million guns will magically go away... POOF. All gone!
That is an extreme, but to some degree, many people are infected with that thinking.