Long Island Man Convicted for Shooting Teenager - Page 2

Long Island Man Convicted for Shooting Teenager

This is a discussion on Long Island Man Convicted for Shooting Teenager within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Musketeer, Racism is everywhere. :\ - Janq...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Musketeer,

    Racism is everywhere. :\

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    More than anything I wish these stupid kids had been properly raised by their parents so that White was never in the position where his bad decision cost him his freedom.
    [musketeer/QUOTE]

    how many tens of thousands of kids and parents can this be said about?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
    ― Thomas Paine

  3. #18
    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
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    I too am from Long Island, Queens to be exact, and I go there frequently to visit family. There is racism there, no doubt. I would say that there is more racism directed towards hispanics than blacks. There is also a pretty good police force there. Leaving the relative safety of your home, even to go outside to the front porch is a stupid thing to do. This man claimed there was a lynch mob headed to his property, why go outside? Musketeer, you talk about racism in your posts, complain about racism on Long Island, then you say things like, and I quote this from your posts, "When a gun is pointed at you it is not smart to continue to hurl racial slurs at the black father of the kid you were coming to kill while backed up by your Guido Posse" and "I do not shed many tears though for the death of a piece of Guido Trash ". Yes racism is alive and well on Long Island, and maybe a little of that racism is a little closer to yourself han you may think. Before calling others racist trash, please take a look at your own statements. Saying something like that is uncalled for. Whether or not this kid deserved to be shot and killed is one thing, calling him Guido Trash is something else entirely.
    The facts in this case were pretty simple. A man felt threatened and left the safety of his own home, had time to get his unregistered gun which means he had plenty of time to call 911. He left the safety of being inside his home, and shot someone with a loaded unregistered weapon. He then claims that the gun went off "accidently". That statement right there means that he himself felt that he would not have been justified in shooting the kid, if he felt he was justified than he would not have claimed this to be an accident. Accidently shooting someone while pointing the gun at their face is punishable by jail, plain and simple. If he was justifiably in fear of his life or in fear of his families life than he would not have claimed the gun went off accidently. If he was legitimately in fear of a lynch mob than he would have gone to the jury and said yes i shot him and I was right to do so.
    Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

  4. #19
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    Usually situation escalate, this one had all the hallmarks of being manageable.

    911 is NOT an option. (Make the call)
    Stay inside.
    Find a recording device and let the kids incriminate themselves.
    If the kids break the plane of the exterior of the house, then it is a free fire zone.

    At least in my world...

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Given I am half Italian and my wife is all Italian I can pretty much identify Guido Trash. Now I could have said White Trash but that would have evoked the wrong image.



    I will be more specific then. Young male caucasian trash of Italian descent with an abnormal affinity for hair gel, gaudy jewelry, generally olive complexioned with dark hair and wife beater T shirts who have a tendency towards clustering with their own ethnic group, are prone to resorting to violence, have an overinflated ego and sense of machismo.

    Now the majority of my family who are Italian DO NOT fall into that category but having grown up surrounded by such individuals you would have to be a moron not to identify the type.

  6. #21
    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
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    Musketeer,
    I was simply trying to make the point that, people complaining that racism is alive and well, then using terms such as Guido trash, simply aren't helping the situation. I grew up in Queens as well, spent the first 19 years of my life there and I know the area and its people well. Because of where I grew up, I make it a point to not use racist remarks, to describe people. Race has very little if nothing to do with this sad situation other than the fact that the defense tried to use it to justify the shooting. Take race out of the equation, put a man f unknown race waving a gun in the face of another man of unknown race, the gun "accidently goes off". The verdict would be guilty. there were no racist overtones in this case other than those raised by the defense. I dated a jewish girl, if an unarmed german threatened her and she shot him, could she say that she did so because of the stories her grandma told her of the concentration camps? I am irish, can I shoot british people because of the stories I heard about the ira? It was a b.s. excuse and the jury rightfully saw through it. Race may be an issue, race is all over the place in Queens, but in this case race was a crutch beig used by the defense to justify a non-justifiable shooting. If MR. White was fearful to bring a gun outside and WAVE IT IN THE KIDS FACE, then he must have been fearful enough to be justified in shooting the kid, in which case he has no need for the accidental discharge defense.
    Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    This thread is not quite taking the direction that I intended for it. Although race was one of the causes of this altercation...

    I am more interested in discussing the options available to Mr. White that night, the actions he decided to take, and the legal response he has faced in NY State. Please try to keep responses on target.

    Hopefully by studying and discussing his failures, we can prepare ourselves to better respond to situations in the future.

    ...
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Going outside leaving the protection of your homes four walls to _confront_ people who are doing nothing more than verbally disturbing your peace to 1) exchange words with them and 2) brandish a firearm while doing so is A) tactically stupid, B) legally indefensible, and C) challenging the BGs and lady luck to escalate trouble.

    Dude will lose his freedom and his family will lose their father and everything else (finances), and a human being is dead because dad got steamed and had Jim Crow era flashbacks toward a group of adult sized teens who hurled insults and taunts at his kid from the yea side of a closed and locked door.

    A mighty expensive error in judgment on Mr. White's part.
    As well a lesson for us all toward what not to do.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    I disagree, race played a large roll in this.

    It was a white girl lying about a black boy that started it.

    It was a group of white kids readily willing to believe the lie about the black kid which escalated it.

    It was the group of white kids in three cars going to the house of the black kid's family to stomp on him which brought it to a head.

    It was a justifiably worried black father making a poor decision about how to confront the white mob looking to beat his son that was the end result.

    Race was all over this. Any white person confronted by a gang of blacks hurling racial epitaphs at them (racism being plenty of motive for violence) would be justified in also fearing for their life and lying if they said race had nothing to do with it. Knowing racism exists and being in a threatening situation where it is a major motivating factor does have relevance in the actions of the persecuted.

    If race wasn't a motivating factor then tell me how many of these overprivileged white kids would have believed the accusation of the one white girl if it were hurled against one of their own, let alone decide to take three cars worth of hoodlums only missing their hoods to the home of the kid accused of the offense with the intention of beating him?

    Mr. White acted wrongly for the right reason. He should be punished commensurate with his crime and the factors which contributed to it. Saying race played no factor here though in the incident is wrong.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutz4utwo View Post
    This thread is not quite taking the direction that I intended for it. Although race was one of the causes of this altercation...

    I am more interested in discussing the options available to Mr. White that night, the actions he decided to take, and the legal response he has faced in NY State. Please try to keep responses on target.

    Hopefully by studying and discussing his failures, we can prepare ourselves to better respond to situations in the future.

    ...
    On that front I am in complete agreement he should not have opened his door and should have called 911. I am not surprised he did open the door since most people do not have a real understanding of self defense law and believe that when one is threatened, especially if they are on their own property, they have the right to respond. That is not the law, even if it is generally accepted by many people.

  11. #26
    Ex Member Array ibez's Avatar
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    Calling 911 would only give the hoodlum kids a chance to come back another day to execute their threat .

    A mans home and property is his castle ( at times extended to his automobile , work .... right to be there )
    What right did these hoodlums have to be at the mans house and its vicitiny ?
    They were there to commit a crime ( they threathened )
    they got what they deserve .

    Homeowner = 1
    Hoodlums = 0


    Racism is alive and well......


    .

  12. #27
    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibez View Post
    Calling 911 would only give the hoodlum kids a chance to come back another day to execute their threat .

    A mans home and property is his castle ( at times extended to his automobile , work .... right to be there )
    What right did these hoodlums have to be at the mans house and its vicitiny ?
    They were there to commit a crime ( they threathened )
    they got what they deserve .

    Homeowner = 1
    Hoodlums = 0


    Racism is alive and well......


    .
    NY Does not have the castle doctrine. The kid was unarmed, simply trespassing is not a crime punishable by death. The defense claims race was an issue, the prosecution says that is not so. Either way there was no immediate deadly threat to this man and his family. If he thought there was an imminent threat then he should have stayed indoors. NY is not like most states, their gun laws are out of the dark ages, and there is no castle law in effect. Even here in NC where gun laws are a little better, I can't simply walk out of my home and shoot someone because they threatened me and were on my front lawn. These kids may be hoodlums, but Mr. White just gave the anti-gun lobby a few extra rounds of ammunition. Saying homeowner-1 hoodlum-0 is dead wrong. Everyone lost in this one. The only people coming out ahead in this story is the anti-gun lobby.
    Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

  13. #28
    Ex Member Array ibez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaystekan View Post
    NY Does not have the castle doctrine. The kid was unarmed, simply trespassing is not a crime punishable by death. The defense claims race was an issue, the prosecution says that is not so. Either way there was no immediate deadly threat to this man and his family. If he thought there was an imminent threat then he should have stayed indoors. NY is not like most states, their gun laws are out of the dark ages, and there is no castle law in effect. Even here in NC where gun laws are a little better, I can't simply walk out of my home and shoot someone because they threatened me and were on my front lawn. These kids may be hoodlums, but Mr. White just gave the anti-gun lobby a few extra rounds of ammunition. Saying homeowner-1 hoodlum-0 is dead wrong. Everyone lost in this one. The only people coming out ahead in this story is the anti-gun lobby.
    "castle doctrine" or NOT, EVERYONE has a HUMAN RIGHT to protect themself

    and the term "feeling threathened" is subjective

    many people felt they were not "threathened" in life, a lot of those same people are now sleeping with the worms.

    Just because the hood-lums didn't have "a gun" like the homeowner did doesn't make them less deadly.

    unless you're suggesting only guns can be used to kill.......... (?)

    a bunch of kids or men is threathening you, you're gonna wait for them to strike first and hope you live so you can call the police ?


    .

  14. #29
    Member Array Jaystekan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibez View Post
    "castle doctrine" or NOT, EVERYONE has a HUMAN RIGHT to protect themself

    and the term "feeling threathened" is subjective

    many people felt they were not "threathened" in life, a lot of those same people are now sleeping with the worms.

    Just because the hood-lums didn't have "a gun" like the homeowner did doesn't make them less deadly.

    unless you're suggesting only guns can be used to kill.......... (?)

    a bunch of kids or men is threathening you, you're gonna wait for them to strike first and hope you live so you can call the police ?


    .
    I agree with what you said. However, the minute MR. White claimed that the gun went off accidently as he was walking away, he lost all credibility. Had he said, "Yes I shot him, I was being threatened so i shot him justifiably", then this might have been a good shooting. Instead. he said that he fired accidently, meaning that he didn't mean to shoot the kid. That means that he didn't feel his life was in danger at the moment he fired his gun, had he felt threatened when he fired, then he would have said so, and maybe he wouldn't have been prosecuted. This situation only got to the point of a killing because Mr. White brought the gun into the equation, a gun that he wasn't trained in its use, a gun that wasn't registered, a gun that had no business being there. My ccw instructor always says, Never bring a knife to a gunfight and never bring a gun to a fistfight.
    It all comes down to: Did Mr white feel in mortal danger of his life or those of his family at the moment he fired the gun. He claims it was an accidental shooting, meaning, NO he didn't feel in mortal danger of his life or his families. Therefore it was a bad shooting. Yes accidents happen, but putting the gun into the face of a person, then accidently having it go off, shows extreme negligence or total disregard on the part of Mr. White. All he did was give the anti-gun people more stories to look at.
    Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

  15. #30
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    Cool

    I lived in Smith Point Suffolk County New York for 10 years prior to moving to Richmond Virginia and I am Afro American. Smith Point is not far from where this incident took place, Smith Point and Miller Place are both affluent areas with homes starting at the $500K - $750K price point. Both areas are predominately White but have many Afro American professionals living there. Racism is alive and well all over and you find it where you find it. It should not be used to cover your bad judgement, or to save your a$$ because you did something really, really stupid. A guilty judgement IMHO was correct he could have easily called the police, not arm his teenage son and barricaded himself in his house and wait for the Police. If for some reason the kids entered his home then he could have easily defended himself and family with the shotgun, the lesser of two evils. This is the type of the scenario and incident that is used as political fodder to increase gun control.
    Last edited by crossfireltd; January 5th, 2008 at 02:47 AM.
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