LEO needs practice

This is a discussion on LEO needs practice within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Chevy-SS The actual numbers (pay & benefits for police, fire & teachers) are published in the local papers regularly, as the media ...

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Thread: LEO needs practice

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    The actual numbers (pay & benefits for police, fire & teachers) are published in the local papers regularly, as the media tries to explain why our tax burden is so high.

    In my area, police and fire are definitely NOT underpaid.
    Its a matter of perspective. If you make 30k yearly, then yeah, your probably going to feel that the cops making 55k are doing quite well. If you are making 130k, your probably going to feel that they could be paid a little more.
    Here, we do very well... but we work for it. We have to put up with a lot of BS, and everyone always how to do our jobs better. Its not uncommon for a senior LEO in my area to be pushing 6 figures. Although you will never get rich with those numbers it does make for a nice living. Remember though, LEO's donít necessarily get paid for what they do, they get paid for what they might have to do.

    LEO pay is often based on per capita income as well. So if in RI the average household income is 50K, they will make 20-25% above that number. Areas with a lot of business also boost that number.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmarcustrucker View Post
    shooting at paper targets is much different then being attacked. Closest we can come to it is simunitions training and such. Even then until the SHTF...you don't know how your going to do. But yes, many cops do the min required. and for most thats enough since they never have to use their weapon.
    i have read stats on police shootings nation wide,and the amount of bullets it takes to hit the BG are actually similar to this incident.
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Der Alte View Post
    Especially with the SCOTUS decision that the police are not there for your protection.
    They are there for the protection of the public as a whole... not your personal protection.


    For the shooting stats thing... until you've been there and done that, its best to keep your trap shut.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Its a matter of perspective. If you make 30k yearly, then yeah, your probably going to feel that the cops making 55k are doing quite well. If you are making 130k, your probably going to feel that they could be paid a little more.....
    I beg to differ. IMO this is not a personal matter of perspective at all. My own income does not factor into my opinion of what others make, unless we are in similar vocations.
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

  6. #20
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    I'd like to point out the other person in this shooting. If we would all have chipped in a few more tax dollars to our local welfare programs this poor, poor bad guy wouldn't have had to bring a knife to a gunfight. I for one feel ashamed, and I plan to call my local Clinton campaign HQ and find out where I can give more to my community!

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    I beg to differ. IMO this is not a personal matter of perspective at all. My own income does not factor into my opinion of what others make, unless we are in similar vocations.
    So what is to much money IYO?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    So what is to much money IYO?
    IMO - pay and benefits should fall in line with industry norms (difficult to define in some instances, I know), taking into account demographics and geographics.

    30+ years ago, when I thought about joining local LE, the pay was low and I went elsewhere. Since then, some municipal union leaders have done an admirable job of boosting pay, benefits and retirement provisions for police, fire and teachers; at the expense of taxpayers like me.

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    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

  9. #23
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    OK, so for the job at hand, what is fair pay for your area?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    OK, so for the job at hand, what is fair pay for your area?
    I'm going to throw in my $.02 here, wanted or not.

    The median income in my County is $66k. The median housing cost is $405k.

    The starting wage for Officers (varied by city) is around $45k. Almost all of them require: 2 years of experience and a 2 year degree or a 4 year degree.

    Now... was someone saying something about Cops being well compensated?
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    I'm going to throw in my $.02 here, wanted or not.

    The median income in my County is $66k. The median housing cost is $405k.

    The starting wage for Officers (varied by city) is around $45k. Almost all of them require: 2 years of experience and a 2 year degree or a 4 year degree.

    Now... was someone saying something about Cops being well compensated?


    Thats about par for the country... I'm lucky enough to be in an area that we really are well paid. I am not going to get rich, but I make a nice living.

    Here, the average pay is in the 60-70k mark, medium income is probably about 45k, a nice 1800sqft 4 bedroom home will set you back about 200k.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    IMO - pay and benefits should fall in line with industry norms (difficult to define in some instances, I know), taking into account demographics and geographics.

    30+ years ago, when I thought about joining local LE, the pay was low and I went elsewhere. Since then, some municipal union leaders have done an admirable job of boosting pay, benefits and retirement provisions for police, fire and teachers; at the expense of taxpayers like me.

    ---------------------------------
    Sir, I believe that you are getting something in return for you tax money. BTW the officer's wages, properties are taxed as well.
    "The liberty of the individual is no gift of civilization. It was greatest before there was any civilization." Sigmund Freud

  13. #27
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    The average gun owner practices more than the average LEO. Minneapolis is required to qualify twice a year which is one more than most departments. Shooting in low light or dark should be part of everybody's routine as that is when most self-defense shootings occur. It is how I conduct my qualification test for a MN permit.
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  14. #28
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    Qualifying is not practice and practice is not qualifying.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    The average gun owner practices more than the average LEO.
    On what statistics do you base that statement? Law Enforcement Agencies are required to document training and qualifications, so it is easy enough to determine that information. Could you let me know what group or agency provided you with the training and qualification records for the "average gun owner"? I would love to see the stats.

    Look, I will be the first to stand up and say that too many law enforcement agencies require/provide too little training and qualifications. I say that as a LE Firearms Instructor. My agency is not bad, but it is not great. It is better than most, worse than some. I know of several agencies (local and federal) that require monthly qualifications. I know of several that qualify ONCE PER YEAR. Crazy. But it varies widely and you cannot accurately say "most" when you make that statement.

    I know lots of CCW holders. Many of them attend regular training to include advanced tactical training. Many of them never fire the weapon...period. My state does not require any type of qualifying course of fire. Which one is the "average gun owner"? Heck, that being said...those are "gun carriers", not just "gun owners". I would hazard a guess that the largest percentage of "gun owners" in the US own long guns more than hand guns and have had very little formal training. They shoot during hunting season. That's it.

    My point is, there is no way to generalize. Some of the best shooters I know are private citizens who have never carried a badge but have taken it upon themselves to avail themselves of every bit of quality training they can get. Some of the worst shooters I have ever seen are private citizens who get their CCW witout ever firing a shot, carry a weapon every day, and have no idea if it will actually fire when they pull the trigger. Some of the best shooters I know are guys who carry/wear badges. Some are also the worst I have ever seen. Neither group has a lock on being the best or the worst.

    One thing is absolulely certain. Shooting on the range, no matter how you do it, is never exactly like doing it in the real world...with somebody ducking, dodging, shooting back, trying to stab/cut you, or run over you. There are a whole lot of range commandos (with and without badges) who have not figured that out yet. But they love to talk the talk.

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  16. #30
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knuckledrager View Post
    Sir, I believe that you are getting something in return for you tax money. BTW the officer's wages, properties are taxed as well.
    Thank you. It's good to know municipal employees actually pay taxes. I thought it was just working stiffs like me who paid, lol.

    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

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