'I'm not the murderer they make me out to be'

This is a discussion on 'I'm not the murderer they make me out to be' within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; It all boils down to ONE FACT: A LEO lost his life......going after a little pot. Not a very good epitaph is it?...

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Thread: 'I'm not the murderer they make me out to be'

  1. #16
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    It all boils down to ONE FACT:

    A LEO lost his life......going after a little pot. Not a very good epitaph is it?
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array cmidkiff's Avatar
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    The simple truth is this: We don't know enough facts.

    I generally come down on the side of law enforcement, at least giving them the benefit of doubt. LEO's overwhelmingly mean well, even when they are directed by people who have no business doing so.

    This guy was committing a crime. Even a small amount of pot is illegal, right? The fact that you don't think it should be a crime is irrelevant to this case. He was armed... while committing a criminal act. Yeah, he's hosed, and probably should be.

    My prayers go out to the family of the slain officer.

    On the other side of the argument... I have several 400 watt metal halide lamps in my house. To the best of my knowledge, there's no crime being committed. I have a marine reef aquarium, and the lighting is used to keep live corals. I also have several large plastic tubs... I use them for storage of all sorts of things out in the garage. Neither of these items have ever been used in the commission of a crime. If this guy had those same items, and wasn't growing dope, they shouldn't be allowed as evidence against him.

    A water pipe and a bag of weed? Yeah, those they should use to hang him. The rest of it is BS.

    Ever seen a home invasion case where the bad guys were wearing riot helmets? Me either.
    Liberty is an inherently offensive lifestyle. Living in a free society guarantees that each one of us will see our most cherished principles and beliefs questioned and in some cases mocked. It's worth it.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Bunny View Post
    Let me see here, a "no knock warrant" for a guy growing some pot?! There has got to be a better way? If someone told the police that I was growing some pot (which I don't or use), they may bust down my door just on the word of an "Informant"? This is crazy! I know there is a time and place for such measures, but this takes the cake!
    For a little pot, the police are going to stand at a door, yell "POLICE!", then kick down the door, enter the house ready to shoot anyone that might look like a threat because they might get shot, and expect the home owner not to respond?
    Talk about a "police state"!!!
    They NEED to do a little more investigation then just taking the word of a scumbag the is most likely a drug user himself!
    Rant off!
    i agree it sounds like he was set up to me. knocking down someones door over a small amount of marijuana is absurd. they really need to make sure someone really possesses a lot of drugs before raiding a home. this is not the first time this sort of thing has happened.too bad a man had to loose his life and another his freedom over a drug law that makes little sense to most people.
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  5. #19
    Senior Member Array Gun Bunny's Avatar
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    I'm am NOT a LEO basher by no-means, but even if this guys story is even half the truth, I still question the logic behind this kind of entry. Why not use surveillance and see how many people are in the house, and when they are sure no one else is in the home, wait for the guy to leave, stop him, and go from there? Isn't worth the police officers life? Or the subjects life?
    I feel the police need to have extreme cause before this method is used. It is almost saying that you are guilty before proven innocent.
    I feel for the officer and his family and my prayers are with them, and the guy growing pot is guilty and committing a crime, but maybe if he had a forest of pot in his back yard, and a big time dealer, maybe.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chooie View Post
    Oh, I agree with you - legalize it all but regulate the sale and distribution, and let Darwin sort 'em out. If people want to ruin their lives, let them - but don't make me pay for their rehab, incarceration, or funeral. I guess that's just the heartless libertarian in me speaking out.
    sounds like you have more of a heart then me. I'm still perplexed. I don't use the stuff, never have. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean it's wrong or should be regulated in any way shape or form. And no, I don't want to be paying for anyone's rehab, incarceration, or funeral either....and there is a RIGHT way to fix that..
    1. Legal means no incarceration...fixes that problem.
    2. What funeral. It's not our problem if some dope gets too doped out and dies. That's for their fam to deal with. No fam...fine dump the body. Who said we have to pay for a funeral.
    3. Rehab...once again not our problem. Their own and their family's problem. Can't pay for rehab...tough luck.

    The real tragic part is that this officer died over it and departments everywhere are still in effect sending their officers into battle over it. It's NUTS!
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array sui-juris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMH View Post
    This is ridicules. They need to end the war on drugs and stop modern day prohibition. It is an avenue to restrict civil freedoms, and works about as well as gun control works. The quickest way to lose control over something is to make it illegal.

    Just because you smoke pot doesn’t mean that you no longer have a right to self defense.
    I agree, this shows too that no knock search warrants can be fatal not just for the home owner but for the police also, especially when you take into account the number of times where police raid the wrong house and someone ends up dead. All this for some pot?

  8. #22
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Like it says on those stickers they sell at gun shows:

    THERE IS NOTHING HERE WORTH YOUR LIFE

    The very fact that the police are not boasting and
    strutting in front of a table overflowing with contraband
    rather proves that point, in this case, doesn't it?

    Where's the crack? Where's the meth?
    Where's the felony weight of marijuana?
    Where's the plant farm?

    A "confidential informant"....
    A "pay stub"?!

    Another glorious victory against misdemenor offenders.


    --Travis--

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    It's been a long day, and I have not read all the long posts, as they were leading down the drug legality path.

    1. Personal use
    2. No criminal record
    3. Home invasion history with him and the hood
    4. 2 dogs going nuts in a house...that's loud, especially when you are jerked out of a deep sleep because of it.
    5. IF the police were yelling "POLICE" as they are breaking in the door, are you going to hear it over the dogs barking, the door breaking in, the adrenaline and blood whooshing in your ears, and being not all there yet?
    6. Growing exotic plants is not illegal.
    7. And here is my broken record statement...All the info we have is what the media is letting us have

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    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  10. #24
    Member Array abuttermilk's Avatar
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    1. In a back bedroom
    2. Dogs going crazy.
    3. Front door disintegrates in front of you.
    4. Prior problem with home invaders
    5. Dim lighting
    6. When he called 911 and learned police were outside, he immediately went outside and surrendered.
    7. Growing exotic tree with lights, pans, etc.
    8. Never heard shout of identification.

    Sorry to hear an officer was killed but I think I would be going after a confidential informant. Must have REAL good info for a warrant!!
    And, probably an overreaction by police on bad info.
    Like the 76 year old grandfather who stopped for gas late at night and had a gun on the front seat and a child asleep on the back seat and was seen at a gas station as he filled up. 911 call about a child being kidnapped at gunpoint. Old man stopped down the road by numerous officers, taken from truck at gunpoint. Over 1,000 rounds of ammo in truck. (Two bricks of 22 ammo for the two grandsons sleeping in back seat). Not even a 22 firearm in truck. News media blew it all up and never made an apology after the fact when the old gentleman was found to be a prominent rancher on the way home from a kid rodeo.
    OVERREACTION BY POLICE AND MEDIA!!
    "It does not take a majority to prevail,,,,,,but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    From the info that has been presented, it does sound like the police did make a mistake in this case. However, we are only getting half of the story right now. There had to be something that they were able to use to convince a judge for a search warrant, especially a no-knock.
    In the case of the 76 year old grandfather, from the info that was presented, I dont think the police overreacted at all. They get a call of a possible kidnapping and a visible firearm. That is definite grounds for a felony stop. The media did overreact, but thats not surprising.

  12. #26
    Member Array scratchy wilson's Avatar
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    Morales said Frederick purchased a gun as protection for his home and he practiced at firing ranges to learn how to use it.


    I have a problem here. Presuming he bought the gun at a dealer, isn't there a line on the yellow form asking if you are a user of illegal narcotics? A minor point, but....

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    this is a tough one. Few facts, incomplete story, jail house interview... not really enough for me to make an opinion yet. I do think this is the sort of case that should be worked out in a trial. It is not immediately clear to me what he did was right or wrong so a jury of his peers should get the chance to find out.

    Just because you are doing something illegal (or being accused in this case), doesn't mean your rights and ability to defend your self are not valid. Our guy is still protected by State self defense laws...

    The details about how the LEO's entered, what they said and did, what the guy saw...ought to determine if he acted in self defense or not. It might be pretty difficult to determine "beyond a reasonable doubt" that he intended to shoot a police officer...

    It is probably better for this guy to keep his mouth shut and wait for the trial. His news interview might come back to work against him.

    Thoughts and sympathy go out to officer and their family. It sucks to be shot at as part of your job.

    Overall, my impression is that serving warrants is one of the most dangerous things LEO have to do. There must be a better way...? I might use my noggin and brainstorm a little.
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by 500Mag View Post
    Secondly, if someone is in the act of breaking into your home as it appears to have been the case, I wouldn't think you're life is in imminent danger, yet.
    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

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  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Bunny View Post
    Let me see here, a "no knock warrant" for a guy growing some pot?! There has got to be a better way? If someone told the police that I was growing some pot (which I don't or use), they may bust down my door just on the word of an "Informant"? This is crazy! I know there is a time and place for such measures, but this takes the cake!
    For a little pot, the police are going to stand at a door, yell "POLICE!", then kick down the door, enter the house ready to shoot anyone that might look like a threat because they might get shot, and expect the home owner not to respond?
    Talk about a "police state"!!!
    They NEED to do a little more investigation then just taking the word of a scumbag the is most likely a drug user himself!
    Rant off!
    Yep, sounds stupid to me also.


    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage

    GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself

  16. #30
    Member Array JungleJim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 500Mag View Post
    Secondly, if someone is in the act of breaking into your home as it appears to have been the case, I wouldn't think you're life is in imminent danger, yet. So the shooting may have been a few seconds premature to be considered self-defense.
    While, I agree that there is more to the story, I don't agree that someone breaking into my home doesn't put me in imminent danger. If it ever does happen, hopefully it won't, they will definitely be looking down the business end of a firearm until there lack of being a threat is determined.

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