'I'm not the murderer they make me out to be' - Page 3

'I'm not the murderer they make me out to be'

This is a discussion on 'I'm not the murderer they make me out to be' within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; If they made a movie of this, it would be called "Keystone Kops Play Russian Roulette". I've been following this story since the beginning. Where ...

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Thread: 'I'm not the murderer they make me out to be'

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    "Keystone Kops Play Russian Roulette"

    If they made a movie of this, it would be called "Keystone Kops Play Russian Roulette".

    I've been following this story since the beginning. Where is all the evidence of this major growing operation, and why do the neighbors say they didn't hear anyone shout that they were the police until after the shots? As many home invasions as there have been in tidewater VA, it would be only natural to think that that is what is happening when somebody crashes through your door in the night.

    It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. I hope the kid gets a good lawyer, since it seems likely he is going to get screwed. Sadly, the judge who signed this 'weak' warrant and the officer who requested it on the word of some petty criminal and those who planned this ill advised action will NOT be punished.

    If this is an example of 'good' police work, we are all in trouble.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan


  2. #32
    Member Array Logan5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scratchy wilson View Post

    have a problem here. Presuming he bought the gun at a dealer, isn't there a line on the yellow form asking if you are a user of illegal narcotics? A minor point, but....
    A prosecutor could use that “lie” in the trial.
    He broke the law & lied to obtain a gun – Therefore he illegally obtained a firearm.

    Or he just his credibility is that much more UN trustable.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    one thing i know for sure is if we changed a lot of our drug laws you would see an incredible drop in violence and in government spending. this so called drug war is unwinable and that is a fact.
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  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    I am starting to wonder if the first time that someone broke into his garage (where he was supposedly growing pot) and nothing was stolen, if it was a nosy neighbor with an ax to grind and reported a massive pot farm to the locals.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array Gun Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    I am starting to wonder if the first time that someone broke into his garage (where he was supposedly growing pot) and nothing was stolen, if it was a nosy neighbor with an ax to grind and reported a massive pot farm to the locals.
    Or the police or the informant!!!
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
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    We don't know that he lied on a gun purchase form; the gun could have been given to him as a gift or he could have bought from an individual. In either case there would have been no form.

    It seems to me that the police had good reason to search the property, since an informant that they apparently trusted indicated a marijuana growing operation in the garage.

    It all went south when the homeowner slept through the police announcing themselves, and any subsequent identifying shouts were drowned out by barking dogs. The homeowner had good reason to fear he would be killed or seriously harmed by whoever was violently enterring his home (he's only a 100 lb man!), but he should have announced to "stop or I'll shoot" or waited until he knew who he was shooting at. The fact that he shot blindly through the door is, I'm afraid, going to get him put away for a few years. If it had been a BG trying to break in, the DA might see it as a good shoot, but no way with it being a LEO.

    Anyway, he's in jail on murder charges, not on any drug charges whatsoever, so I doubt we're going to find out later that police recovered any substantial amount of marijuana besides his small stash for personal use.

  7. #37
    Ex Member Array Creature's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan5 View Post
    A prosecutor could use that “lie” in the trial.
    He broke the law & lied to obtain a gun – Therefore he illegally obtained a firearm.

    Or he just his credibility is that much more UN trustable.
    Or he only started smoking pot AFTER he purchased the handgun...was a drug test performed at the time of the purchase? No. That about does it to that argument.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array purple88yj's Avatar
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    The thick and skinny of it is, in my eyes, this: The man shot in what he presumed to be a self-defense situation. Unfortunately it was a LEO. Because it was a LEO he is going to swing.

    The amount of marijuana is irrelevant. Could have been a joint or a truck load, he will be tried for the killing of a cop. You can bet that the drugs and related paraphernalia will be used to solidify the case. He will be made out to be a drug abuser and not a "social smoker". The shooting will be painted as him protecting his "stash" and not his home and life.

    As mentioned earlier: big price to pay for a misdemeanor drug charge.

    Peter Tosh said it right, "Legalize it".
    "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in ... And how many want out." British Prime Minister Tony Blair

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    What are the odds...

    That someone testified that he was growing marijuana -- what do you know, the police found grow lights, etc. I suppose the books and magazines they confiscated had nothing to do with growing marijuana? That's why they took them.



    The perp says "I only wanted to grow a banana tree" but for some coincidental reason, the police found a bong and a bag of marijuana.

    So maybe everyone in the neighborhood knew he was growing in his garage and someone broke in a few days earlier and stole it.

    Maybe he was sleeping because he was zonked out of his gord.

    Maybe he woke up with impaired judgement and coordination, distorted sight and hearing, and shot at the only police in the country who supposedly are silent when they break a door down. Is it really a surprise that he can't even remember what happened?

    Yeah, our country would be much better if everyone was stoned all the time.

  10. #40
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purple88yj View Post
    The thick and skinny of it is, in my eyes, this: The man shot in what he presumed to be a self-defense situation. Unfortunately it was a LEO. Because it was a LEO he is going to swing.
    Ah, there's the rub. He presumed it was a self defense situation BUT IT WASN'T. It wasn't even the the bad no knock warrant that we have previously discussed. The man was in possession and growing an illegal substance.

    The amount of marijuana is irrelevant. Could have been a joint or a truck load, he will be tried for the killing of a cop. You can bet that the drugs and related paraphernalia will be used to solidify the case. He will be made out to be a drug abuser and not a "social smoker". The shooting will be painted as him protecting his "stash" and not his home and life.
    A 'social smoker?' You're joking, no? Of course he was a drug abuser. You are correct, the amount of marijuana is irrelevant. The man was growing marijuana, using the drug, and probably distributing it, too. He was about to be arrested and murdered a police officer.

    As mentioned earlier: big price to pay for a misdemeanor drug charge.
    In most jurisdictions growing marijuana and distributing is a felony. As it should be. Perhaps you are unaware of the horrendous damage marijuana does on children. This mantra that it is victimless and harmless is dead wrong.

    Peter Tosh said it right, "Legalize it".
    That would absolutely be a societal mistake of the gravest proportion. We already have to deal with the damage alcohol does. Now some want to extend the horrific problems to yet another drug. Marijuana should never be legalized. It would destroy any chance we have of recovering from the current moral decay. Fortunately, most people (except potheads) understand this.
    Last edited by SelfDefense; January 27th, 2008 at 04:26 PM. Reason: fix quote

  11. #41
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    Exaggerated threat

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    That would absolutely be a societal mistake of the gravest proportion. We already have to deal with the damage alcohol does. Now some want to extend the horrific problems to yet another drug. Marijuana should never be legalized. It would destroy any chance we have of recovering from the current moral decay. Fortunately, most people (except potheads) understand this.
    I doubt there are any potheads with licenses here; at least none that have done anything that would bring police attention to them.

    I'm entirely unconvinced one way or the other, but there certainly seems to be plenty of indication that the threat is greatly exaggerated. On the other hand, there is also plenty of reason to know that enforcing the bulk of the drug laws seems to be counter productive. If nothing else, there is substantial erosion of respect for privacy and civil liberties.

    We know what doesn't work. Maybe we should try decriminalization and treatment. Will it work? I don't know. But I know that the present approach is very very expensive, destroys lives over often trivial possession charges, endangers officers, distracts from other problems.

    Doing the same thing that doesn't work over and over again doesn't lead anywhere.


    (I wonder what proportion of this "self medication" problem could be erased by providing better, cheaper, and more accessible health care.)
    Last edited by Hopyard; January 27th, 2008 at 04:36 PM. Reason: missing bracket in html code

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    heres a fun fact. the reason marijuana was made illegal in the 1930's was as an attempt to cut down on illegal immigration. it worked too(for about a month IIRC)
    "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Zaria View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I'm no pothead or advocate of it, but...

    I think it's insane that the US government spends time and money going after potheads.
    Study after study has shown that pot does NOT kill brain cells, does NOT cause cancer, is LESS harmful to the body than either tobacco or alcohol. Humans have been growing it for hemp, fiber, and for smoking for over 3,000 years and even some of the founding fathers of America grew marijuana.
    The fact that we actively pursue these "drug users" (and I think alcohol is more of a "drug problem") and throw them in jail at taxpayer's expense is just stupid. That money could be better spent a million other places; schools, the border, etc....

    Last year, close to 150,000 people died in America from drunk driving, alcohol poisoning, and drinking-related illnesses (such as liver failure). Not a single person died from marijuana overdose, and there wasn't a single "stoned-driving" death on the books either.

    I feel bad for this guy. He was stupid, yes, but he didn't deserve what he has coming to him now, and the officers that got shot sure as heck didn't deserve it either. Loose-loose situation.

    I wonder exactly how well the officers announced themselves. If they really were yelling "POLICE!!!", etc...., that's a different story.

    Peace,
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  14. #44
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scratchy wilson View Post
    Morales said Frederick purchased a gun as protection for his home and he practiced at firing ranges to learn how to use it.


    I have a problem here. Presuming he bought the gun at a dealer, isn't there a line on the yellow form asking if you are a user of illegal narcotics? A minor point, but....
    Marijuana is not a narcotic. Does the statement also say anything about other illegal drugs?

    Quote Originally Posted by jofrdo View Post
    but he should have announced to "stop or I'll shoot" or waited until he knew who he was shooting at.
    Seem to be good ideas, but could have put him in more jeopardy as well. LEO coming thru door hears "stop or shoot" challenge or sees occupant behind cover with weapon, shoots occupant. Or BG playing LEO leads to any number of end points.

    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post

    That would absolutely be a societal mistake of the gravest proportion. We already have to deal with the damage alcohol does. Now some want to extend the horrific problems to yet another drug. Marijuana should never be legalized. It would destroy any chance we have of recovering from the current moral decay. Fortunately, most people (except potheads) understand this.
    I don't buy into this. Never used illegal drugs myself, but knew a lot of people who did. Making it legal won't necessarily make it more popular, but it should reduce the price, and take supporting illegal activity off the board.

    Found this on THR:

    http://www.theagitator.com/2008/01/2...m-cheseapeake/

    Quote:
    He told me a couple of interesting things that didn’t appear in the paper’s interview with Frederick. First, Frederick told the reporter that as the police were taking him out of the house in handcuffs, he told them he was sorry, and that he was scared because his house had been burglarized earlier in the week. According to the reporter, Frederick says the police arresting him then told him they not only knew about the burglary, they knew who had done it. Neither the reporter nor Frederick made the connection at the time that the person who broke in could well also be the informant.


    Apparently the owner was a gardener with Japanese Maples and grow lamps so these can possibly be mistaken for pot. Tomato plants have been mistaken as pot plants in the past. Young Japanese Maple leaves look somewhat like pot leaves before they turn that mature red. http://www.soulofthegarden.com/Image...leLeavesCU.jpg
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  15. #45
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I doubt there are any potheads with licenses here; at least none that have done anything that would bring police attention to them.
    I agree with that but there is no shortage of libertarians, who seem to think that if there is no direct effect on others then there should be no scrutiny of behavior. Libertarians tend to favor illicit and harmful drug usage.

    I'm entirely unconvinced one way or the other, but there certainly seems to be plenty of indication that the threat is greatly exaggerated.
    Well, this particular story certainly demonstrates that the threat is no exaggerated. A police officer is dead because the murderer was a drug addict. I think that that the devastating effects of marijuana on the individual and family is virtually ignored by the media. The subculture of drugs is antithetical to education, productivity and sound relationships. It ruins the lives of children and adults all over the nation.

    On the other hand, there is also plenty of reason to know that enforcing the bulk of the drug laws seems to be counter productive. If nothing else, there is substantial erosion of respect for privacy and civil liberties.
    No one has an expectation of privacy when they are breaking the law.

    We know what doesn't work. Maybe we should try decriminalization and treatment. Will it work? I don't know.
    No, it will not work. It hasn't worked in any country that has legalized drugs. For one thing, most marijuana users don't realize they desperately need treatment. Most will become defensive when challenged about their addiction.

    But I know that the present approach is very very expensive, destroys lives over often trivial possession charges, endangers officers, distracts from other problems.
    Trivial possession? You mean someone who has bought a small amount from a major distributor? Further, addiction to drugs leads directly to crime, home invasions, robbery and burglary.

    Doing the same thing that doesn't work over and over again doesn't lead anywhere.
    It should lead to the correct solution (which I have )

    We should mandate drug tests for EVERY employee at hiring and then randomly. We should require monthly drug testing for anyone on the public dole. We should require monthly testing for every student in high school and college.

    Get rid of the demand and the problem will become much more manageable.

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