I drew my weapon today

This is a discussion on I drew my weapon today within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; well handled target1911, kudos! I hope that you taught this guy an important life lesson. why do people think that they can threaten you like ...

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Thread: I drew my weapon today

  1. #16
    Member Array Raider39a's Avatar
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    well handled target1911, kudos! I hope that you taught this guy an important life lesson. why do people think that they can threaten you like that? I guess Texas has castle doctrine. I wish CT has such a thing. We could use it here.
    "embrace the suck" - our warriors in the sandbox... it implies that do the best you can in impossible conditions.
    "no plan survives intact upon contact with the enemy" - wisdom of the Grunts.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Just seems to me when the R.O. asks why you killed someone for opening your car door------just how much of a perceived threat was it?
    Enough to guard against it going further, given the other indications. At least, if it felt that way on the receiving end of the actual incident.

    In an era of carjackings galore, it's hard to believe that one must skip all precautions until hands of violence are actually placed on a person, when all other indicators suggest that violence is about to ensue.

    Nobody was, in fact, killed. Take all of the indicators as a whole, keeping in mind the description of them, here, might well be slightly different than the "edge" they took on at the moment they were occurring. It's unstated whether this was daytime, or night. Someone with enough anger to "slam" the brakes in the middle of a 70mph #1 lane has lost some of his faculties. Someone who visibly angers beyond that when lightly dismissed with an apology has ratcheted things up beyond mere discussion. Now, if confirmed via the eyes and body language, it could easily be on the verge of assault. "Pulling" the truck door open might well have actually been "ripping" it open. Unspecified.

    The firearm stopped it from going further. Taken as a whole, combined with body language and what was felt on the receiving end, this could easily have been a situation that appeared to have all the makings of a forcible ejection from the vehicle and a pounding on the side of the road. Easily. Not a month goes by when I don't read of such a thing somewhere in the lower 48 states. Typically carjacking, but occasionally this sort of thing, where an altercation of some sort leads to someone being forcibly ripped from a vehicle to take a pounding by a stranger.

    Maybe I'm out-dated on my interpretations of equal force here?
    Uncertain on Texas' statutes on the definition of lethal force, but it seems to me that display of a firearm as warning and discharge of it as force are indeed two separate things.

    What about the "21 ft rule" of knife attacks? What about someone 3ft away who has just forcibly entered your vehicle and has displayed several indications of unwarranted anger and unthinking behavior?

    It's worth thinking of the morning newspaper and what it might say. It's worth considering the degree of threat, absolutely. In the same situation, the aggressor's overall demeanor and body language would contribute quite a lot to the degree of fear for one's life that existed. If angry and urgent enough to the point of seeming "crazed" to me, I likely would also have drawn my firearm in precaution against being ripped from my vehicle. In younger/stronger days, I might have delayed that step until hands were actually placed on me, but that's a minor distinction given the attacker was 3ft away and had no further barriers to eliminate.

    If you don't think it can turn deadly on an instant when someone angrily stops on a roadway to confront you ... think again.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  4. #18
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Well done. Sounds as if you handled a difficult situation perfectly.

    It also reinforces the importance of maintaining your cool when being verbally assaulted. Had you gotten into a verbal shouting match with him and then subsequently drawn, the LE response might have been very different!

    Glad you're ok.

  5. #19
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    If you don't think it can turn deadly on an instant when someone angrily stops on a roadway to confront you ... think again.
    Oh-I agree completely and know all too well. I just took this statement:
    you've always had the right to kill someone who is attacking you.
    , and realized that life and death may very well hinge on someone's mood at the moment. Looking at the facts in this case---the OP can still press charges on the road rage attacker. IMO, that's what I would do to get the 'message' across for them to hopefully amend their ways before they do end up getting deleted from the living.

  6. #20
    Member Array target1911's Avatar
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    To answer some of the questions

    I carry in vehicle because I am waiting for my CHL to come in the mail. Car carry is legal in TX.

    This happened during the day....Rush Hour traffic

    Those wandering about the use of force in TX....read this.. TexasCHLforum.com • View topic - Dallas Morning News article on Castle Doctrine
    ......it a long read but a very good one. I will say that I dont agree with some of the reasons force was used that are stated in this article.
    David

    Ride hard and Shoot safe

    The first rule of gunfighting should be to know when the gunfight starts - being the last one to get the news certainly won't put the odds in your favor.

  7. #21
    Member Array Jason Rogers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
    Too bad some 18-wheeler didn't smash his vehicle.
    Thats exactly what I was thinking. I doubt keeping his life will teach this dude anything. I think he was lying to the police anyway about just wanting a name. When someone wants to know your name they ask "Whats your name?", they don't climb in your door. I would have given a lot to be there to see his face as the police explained he could have been shot to death and it would have been perfectly legal.- Jay
    Last edited by Jason Rogers; January 30th, 2008 at 10:04 AM. Reason: typo

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array tankdriver's Avatar
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    Once again remember, and this shows it. The 1st one to call 911 is the victim. Make that call....
    1942 M3 Autocar Half-track...M3A1 Diamond T Half-track...57mm Anti-Tank Cannon

    NRA Endowment Member...President West TN Military Vehicle Collectors...MVPA Member

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Anyone have specifics concerning 'killing of attackers'? I mean is there some disparity of force there? Don't mean to hijack the thread, but some of the 'non-blood thirsty' public may want some justification pertaining to this matter. I'm not insinuating anything nor looking for an argument. Just seems to me when the R.O. asks why you killed someone for opening your car door------just how much of a perceived threat was it? Maybe I'm out-dated on my interpretations of equal force here? Remember---passer's by may answer a witness call in the newspaper once the story debuts. Thanks for hearing me out.
    Somebody yanking my car door open and moving as if to grab, stab or otherwise harm me is enough for me. I can't speak for what is enough for you, but he's unwelcome and he's advancing with aggression. He sure as hell isn't there to take my Girl Scout cookie order.
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

  10. #24
    Member Array target1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Rogers View Post
    Thats exactly what I was thinking. I doubt keeping his life will teach this dude anything. I think he was lying to the police anyway about just wanting a name. When someone wants to know your name they ask "Whats your name?", they don't climb in your door. I would have given a lot to be there to see his face as the police explained he could have been shot to death and it would have been perfectly legal.- Jay

    OH YEAH......Meeee tooooo

    Tow Fee...................$75
    Box of 9mm.............$10
    Look on BGs face when he realized he could have Legally been shot
    ................................$$$$ PRICELESS

    My boss couldnt help but laugh when he told me what the guy said when he called. "According to the Officer the laws have changed in TEXAS. Your driver is legal to carry in the truck and I (bg) could have been shot for opening his door." Per my boss the BG was using a very...I've just been educated...tone of voice and he realized how expencive that education could have been. My boss also said he also commented on how calm and collective I was during the whole thing.
    However he was so shaken that it took him 9 times to call 911 and get it right.
    David

    Ride hard and Shoot safe

    The first rule of gunfighting should be to know when the gunfight starts - being the last one to get the news certainly won't put the odds in your favor.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
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    Well played Target1911.
    Personally I think the most important thing you did, other than be prepared to defend yourself, is to call the police and notify your boss. It's always better to be the first to call and get your side of things out in the open.
    I would have loved to be a fly on the wall when the cops talked to the other guy. He is truly lucky to be alive and lucky his SUV didn't get someone killed by blocking a lane of traffic.


    Stay safe and watch your six.
    CRIME..... LAW DEFINES, POLICE ENFORCE, CITIZENS PREVENT!

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  12. #26
    Member Array MnemonicMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by target1911 View Post
    Needless to say, most of the cars didnt even act like I was there....as always.

    I had finished loading the car and was picking up my traffic cones. While I was doing this an SUV was not giving me much room. I dropped the cone and backed out of the way. When I dropped the cone, it fell over into the lane of traffic and the SUV hit it.
    In Indiana this would have gotten him a ticket. They passed a law a couple years ago requiring traffic to slow or change lanes for emergency vehicles. Unfortunately, not many people realize that includes DOT vehicles and tow trucks. But hey- it's tough to legislate against stupid.
    "Lord, help me to be the person my dog thinks I am."

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array snowdoctor's Avatar
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    I am glad you are alright, and sounds as though things worked out in your favor...
    I really don't think you will see that man again...one you scared the %*it out of him, and two he knows you carry a gun, and are not afraid to use it...
    It sounds as though the LEO kind of read him the riot act, and let him know he was in the wrong and could have been shot...
    Are people's daily stress levels really that out of whack for someone to become unglued for hitting a road cone....don't get me wrong...I mean road rage and small things set people off all the time...we really need to rethink our values IMO.
    ----DOC-----

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  14. #28
    Member Array target1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MnemonicMonkey View Post
    In Indiana this would have gotten him a ticket. They passed a law a couple years ago requiring traffic to slow or change lanes for emergency vehicles. Unfortunately, not many people realize that includes DOT vehicles and tow trucks. But hey- it's tough to legislate against stupid.

    Unfortunately the State of Texas has not yet recognized Tow Trucks as an Emergency Vehicle. I wish they would. We spend half of our work time on the side of the road. Thank God I wont have to worry about it anymore after Friday. It is my last day. Not because of this problem. I am just going into another line of work and friday is the last day of my two weeks notice.
    David

    Ride hard and Shoot safe

    The first rule of gunfighting should be to know when the gunfight starts - being the last one to get the news certainly won't put the odds in your favor.

  15. #29
    Member Array Ed4032's Avatar
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    I had a similar situation like that with a homelsss guy. He was violent and attempted to enter my car thru the driver's door. He did not think that he should share the road with any one. He was on a bicycle and I was stopped at a light. I put my 45 in his face and yelled for him to back off. He did and lived another day. I was glad I did not shoot, but glad I was armed. Oh... I live in Texas too.

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array USPnTX's Avatar
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    target1911 - glad it turned out okay. Where in the world do these people come from? Who would think it was okay to open someone's car door (especially in Texas of all places) to "get their name". I really hate to hear about this in Fort Worth. I always thought all the crazy drivers were over here in Dallas!!
    "Do not fear those who disagree with you; fear those that do and are too cowardly to admit it" - Napoleon

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