Mom: Police Told Daughter To Stop Calling Before Murder-Suicide

This is a discussion on Mom: Police Told Daughter To Stop Calling Before Murder-Suicide within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by David in FL Agree, and FWIW, in Florida, a minor cannot file a legal injunction requiring the abuser to refrain fr contact. ...

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Thread: Mom: Police Told Daughter To Stop Calling Before Murder-Suicide

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    Agree, and FWIW, in Florida, a minor cannot file a legal injunction requiring the abuser to refrain fr contact. Only the parent can do so on behalf of their child. While doing so obviously doesn't guarantee that the injunction will be obeyed, having done so will certainly elevate the LE sense of urgency and response if necessary.
    Exactly what I was thinking. Clearly the girl's fears were justified. The parent(s) almost certainly should have played some much greater role that

    If LEO help is what they wanted, then the parent(s) should have been dealing with police, securing a "protective/restraining order," establishing the paper trail and legitimacy of the threats....not to mention helping enhance the security of their daughter through whatever means possible.

    Believe me, I don't trust "the system" to protect me, but if it were my kid, I'd be pursuing all avenues to protect my child and to increase the likelihood that the scumbag gets the fullest assistance from the legal system if he's stupid enough to harass/abuse my kid but not follow through by attempting murder.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Udpate: Additional information to complete the tale

    Preface: The following answers several questions and fills in holes that I and others were wondering about. Further it supports that poor judgment was employed specifically by the victim as well as her mom, and their was a male figure involved as well who took a passive position of pity/mercy (!?) toward Kufer.

    ---

    As reported by The Orlando Sentinel:

    Families' tragedy: 2 teens shot dead in apparent murder-suicide
    A DeLand High student and her ex-boyfriend, found on her porch, died in a murder-suicide, police said.


    Relatives say Natasha Hall and 'Clay' Kufer had a troubled relationship.

    Gabrielle Finley | Sentinel Staff Writer
    February 17, 2008

    Mike Cummings has mulled over some difficult thoughts since his 17-year-old stepdaughter Natasha La'May Hall was shot to death Friday night at the hands of her ex-boyfriend, 19-year-old Daniel Clayton "Clay" Kufer, who then took his own life.

    Why didn't she call the police?

    Where did he get the gun?

    He killed my daughter.

    "I'm just trying to make it through the day," Cummings said. "I am emotionally drained."

    "It's tragic," said Jim Cummings, Natasha's stepgrandfather. "She was loving, bright, beautiful and sharp as a tack.

    "It's tragic a young girl's life was taken."

    DeLand police, who classified the deaths as a murder-suicide, found the bodies on Mike Cummings' front porch.

    Police couldn't confirm the events that led to the teens' deaths, and Kufer's family couldn't be reached for comment Saturday. But Cummings said the pair's relationship was shaky.

    "They had been dating eight or nine months. It had been a very rough relationship," Natasha's stepfather said.

    Natasha, a DeLand High School student, decided to break it off with Kufer a month or so ago, Cummings said.

    Then she started seeing someone else, a Marine stationed at Camp LeJeune, S.C., Mike Cummings said.

    Natasha's new suitor came down to DeLand to visit, and the two were supposed to go to the Daytona 500 Saturday night.

    But they never got that far.

    Here's how Mike Cummings described what happened Friday night:

    Natasha and a friend went shopping for clothes for the race.

    Cummings and Natasha's mother, Cheri, went out to dinner with their younger daughter in Daytona.

    Kufer broke into their DeLand home on West May Street and looked through the caller ID on the house phone.

    He found the Marine's number and called. "He pretended to be an Air Force recruiter because Natasha wanted to enroll in the Air Force. He started interrogating him and said that Natasha listed him as a reference," Natasha's stepfather said.

    The Marine hung up, but Kufer called back.

    "Clay explained to him that Natasha was his girlfriend and that she was only 17," Natasha's stepfather said.

    The Marine then called Natasha and warned her that Kufer had broken into her house.

    "But she didn't call the police," Mike Cummings said. "Natasha, probably more brave than smart, went back to the house and changed clothes."

    Kufer was hiding behind the bushes near the front door, and as Natasha and her friend were leaving the front door, Kufer confronted the girls.

    "He shot her in the head, then started talking crazy. He told her friend if she didn't want to die she should leave, then put a bullet in Natasha's chest," Natasha's stepfather said. "He then took his life on my porch."

    "Seriously. Who in their right mind would give this boy a gun. He's been on edge for a while."

    Kufer was known to take out his aggression on Natasha and hit her, her stepfather said.

    But Cummings said he and the girl's mother had agreed that if Kufer took a military placement test and got into the Air Force they wouldn't press charges.

    "We didn't want to ruin Clay's life," Mike Cummings said. "Unfortunately, he chose the exactly wrong way to end it."

    Even after the breakup, Natasha thought she could still communicate with Kufer.

    "She was an average kid who ended up in a 30-year-old relationship," Natasha's stepfather said. "It wasn't a typical teenager relationship. It was so serious."

    Gabrielle Finley can be reached at gfinley@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5507.

    The story can be found at; Families' tragedy: 2 teens shot dead in apparent murder-suicide -- OrlandoSentinel.com

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  4. #18
    Member Array MadDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Final Option View Post
    That's because they are generally tied up answering false 911 and false alarm calls. My question is if "everyone" saw the signs then why didn't they do anything? Not defending anyone, Just want to know the full story and not just this narrow side.
    +1
    If they knew about the attack coming, why not hide out and find help? something is missing here.

  5. #19
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    But Cummings said he and the girl's mother had agreed that if Kufer took a military placement test and got into the Air Force they wouldn't press charges.

    "We didn't want to ruin Clay's life," Mike Cummings said. "Unfortunately, he chose the exactly wrong way to end it."

    Even after the breakup, Natasha thought she could still communicate with Kufer.
    So how many times are they allowed to tie up 911 with calls for help when they only refuse to press charges?

    Is the life of someone waiting for 911 to respond worth loosing for a girl who has called repeatedly to 911, tying it up and not pressing charges?

  6. #20
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    Thanks Janq...I won't say anymore. I think my original post stands. No one did anything to help this girl and in doing so tied the police's hands.

  7. #21
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    I have to agree with Sixto somewhat about all the screwballs that come thru a dispatch office everyday. All this is new news coming our and more and more information will come out. I've answered many a nut call, with that said I will also say that some young ladies have convinced me they feel threatened by boy friends and I went and jack them up a bit (probably made their mommy and daddy mad) but it sometimes solved the problem. It's easy to second guess things here. When mistakes are made like this.......someone dies.
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  8. #22
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    A very sad story indeed. I don't think either side was completely to blame, but I think telling somebody not to call the police if they feel threatened is a mistake. I worked in a fire department for a time and I realize that there are bogus calls and people freaking out over nothing, but it would reflect poorly on us and the department if we flat out told somebody to not call and bother us.

    Personally I would have the LEOs show up and if it's a bogus call just slap somebody with a fine, making people afraid to call the police is a point in favor of criminals. One of the biggest problems in relation to crime is that a bulk of it goes unreported.
    People do not lack strength; they lack will. Victor Hugo

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
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    Alarms were set in motion with ZERO follow up..so if the alarms were set on that moron who did the shooting in NIL, they too would have fallen on deaf ears..seems like uncaring deaf people are to blame for people dying...(was that a bit too harsh?)

  10. #24
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    i wonder if she had a restraining order out on this guy.
    i would think the police could have arrested him if she did and he got close to her house or her.
    could he have been arrested on some stalking law?
    i think were far from getting the whole story on this.
    a tragedy in any event
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  11. #25
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    It reads like the whole family was "stuck on stupid", even after he hit the girl, and was engaging in stalking behavior.

    This whole thing did not just "happen" over just a few days.

    I'm none too happy when police are indeifferent to complaints, but if you make complaints and refuse to press charges, I can understand their when they don't take today's complaint seriously.

    The girl was too young to know any better. The mother and stepfather deserve every speck of blame for letting it get to this point.




    --Travis--

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    I can't find it right now but I saw a headline today on the Internet where some fellow had called 9-1-1 25,000 times. There are at least two sides to every story and usually more. Somewhere out there is the truth but it usually gets lost in the hyperbole.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormbringerr View Post
    i wonder if she had a restraining order out on this guy.
    i would think the police could have arrested him if she did and he got close to her house or her.
    could he have been arrested on some stalking law?
    i think were far from getting the whole story on this.
    a tragedy in any event
    Restraining orders are highly over rated as personal protection options - they don't do anything to protect you from harm by a determined agressor.

    Fitch

  14. #28
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Final Option View Post
    Thanks Janq...I won't say anymore. I think my original post stands. No one did anything to help this girl and in doing so tied the police's hands.
    No one tied the police's hands.

    1. I wonder if she called the police on 911 or regular phone line.
    2. I wonder if she was threatened by an officer 'not to call again or she would be arrested'.
    3. If she was Threatened not to call back, I hope they find out the name of the officer.
    4. I would hope the county Sheriff's office is investigating the case and not the Deland P.D.
    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

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  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed Travis, 100%.

    Bad judgement on the moms side to listen to the step father with his lets give him a second chance plan go join the service son program.
    He assaulted her daughter. In my that's all she wrote. He'd be charged, period.
    They were so concerned about the rest of _his_ life to which in the end now the girl has no life of her own.
    Way to go for the win!

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  16. #30
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    Hopefully, a few will end up a lot poorer and do prison time.
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