Everybody has an opinion

Everybody has an opinion

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  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    Everybody has an opinion

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    Steve Blow
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    Kaufman County shooting must teach us a hard lesson

    08:12 AM CDT on Sunday, March 9, 2008

    Maybe Brandon Robinson needs to start a band.

    Or at least make sure he gets shot next time during a slow news week.

    Whatever the reason for the silence, I'm astounded that we're not all talking about 15-year-old Brandon. I hope it's simply because the big Texas primary elections monopolized our attention last week.

    Surely we're not ready to shrug off a boy being shot merely for being outside someone's house.

    Fortunately, Brandon survived the wound to his side. But that doesn't mean this case should be forgotten so quickly.

    I say he needs to start a rock band, because the clamor was long and loud when popular local musician Carter Albrecht was killed by a neighbor last fall. And the justification for that shooting was a whole lot clearer than in Brandon's case.

    Mr. Albrecht was drunk and out of control, trying to kick in the neighbor's door in the middle of the night.

    Brandon and his buddy, Devin Nalls, were simply walking outside the house of Devin's neighbor, 74-year-old Pete Frosch. And for that, Mr. Frosch opened fire from inside.

    As you know, the incident took an even more tragic turn when Devin's mother, 41-year-old June Nalls, was killed in a car crash while rushing Brandon to the hospital.

    This story cuts in so many directions it's hard to know where to start. Authorities said the other driver in the crash had apparently been drinking. If that proves true, lower the boom on him.

    And we can certainly say that Brandon and Devin shouldn't have been in the neighbor's yard at 10:30 on the night of March 1. The boys said they were cutting across the Frosches' yard to check out loud music coming from another house.

    But above all, surely we can agree that there's no justification for firing blindly from inside a house just because figures are seen outside.

    Texas has long been mocked for its "gun culture." But real Texans know our gun culture is first and foremost about responsible use of firearms. It was a big deal to receive my first gun as a boy because I knew it meant I could be trusted to use it wisely.

    I hope our gun culture today hasn't come to mean blind defense of anyone who uses a weapon in the name of self-defense.

    Did Mr. Frosch have a right to feel nervous that night? Absolutely. I would be alarmed, too, to see figures outside my house that time of night.

    But feeling nervous or frightened can't become our standard for opening fire. If so, it's really going to get ugly out there.

    A friend told me a distressing story last week. The family's dog had darted out the front door an evening or two before.

    This was well after dark. And it happened to be right after Brandon was shot in Kaufman County.

    Well, the dog made a beeline toward a neighbor's house, where an unfriendly old man lives. "My son instinctively ran after the dog," my friend said.

    "But as he ran toward the neighbor's house, I suddenly thought about that shooting. I could just imagine my neighbor seeing someone run by his window and opening fire. It scared me to death. I screamed out to my son, 'Stop!' "

    How sad that something so innocent as chasing the family mutt should prompt such fears.

    But speaking of fears, I also talked last week to a woman in Allen who called just to defend Mr. Frosch. "I'm sorry this happened," she said, "but we elderly people here in the Dallas area are scared to death. Crime is out of control."

    That poor woman, hunkered down in her home in Allen, is probably in more danger of a ceiling collapse than violent crime. But such is our climate of fear these days.

    Maybe it's time for all of us to take a deep breath and remind ourselves that our violent crime risk is exceedingly small. Caution is warranted, sure, but not constant fear.

    And while I wouldn't want to see Mr. Frosch face anything too harsh, I hope grand jurors find a way to send a message that Texans don't shoot till they have to.
    Psalms 144:1
    Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
    Senior Instructor for Tactical and Defensive of Texas
    http://www.tac-def-tx.com/
    CHL INSTRUCTOR
    Retired LEO
    NRA member
    TCHA member


  2. #2
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    Maybe it's time for all of us to take a deep breath and remind ourselves that our violent crime risk is exceedingly small. Caution is warranted, sure, but not constant fear.
    Yep...its always small...until it happens to YOU

    Some people think that being aware is the same as being fearful.
    It is not the same thing.

    Some people are just too stupid to understand.
    Thats MY opinion...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  3. #3
    Member Array kzooglockman's Avatar
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    Constant Fear??? I would like to think that all of us that CHOOSE to carry are not living in constant fear. I believe a reasonable person would call it being prepared...remember, Boy Scouts 101?? Hotguns hit the nail on the head, some people are just too dumb to ever conceive anything could happen to them. When it does, they're the first to cry "where's the gun control". I'm the one who wants the control of the gun.

    We have had a rough time with some family members because my wife and I are CHOOSING to raise our kids in an environment where they are exposed to a firearm lifestyle. Hey they are free to feel however they want right.

    We really don't pay any attention to the narrow mindedness, but its tough when you think about nieces and nephews and how their parents really don't have a clue. I know in my heart that wtshtf you never know what will happen, but if it does, I feel some comfort in the fact that we will be doing everything we can to keep ourselves alive. At the end of the day that's all you can do.

    I'm not one who likes to bank on the other person doing the right thing.

    kzooglockman

    GO HUSKERS!!

  4. #4
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    No sense beating a dead horse on this one. Brandon and his buddy were completely in the wrong. Being 15 does not justify lurking near someones house late at night. The home owner feared for his safety and acted within the law. He is NOT responsible for the womans death, he is NOT responsible for the boys tresspassing. My question to others, would it make a difference if the individual shot had been 25, or 35? Another question is, what were these boys doing out running the streets at 10:30 at night? Where is the parents responsibility for teaching there kids to respect the rights and property of others?

  5. #5
    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    This story like so many others is predicated upon only one side of the story. The writer makes no reference to anything from the point of view of the homeowner. The writer seems to assume that the homeowner was firing blindly into the night and that the boys were only innocently crossing through his yard. They have no perspective, it is probably an op-ed piece. Someone posted a thread last week about the initial story and the final court decision that were at great odds with each other. In that case a dispute between neighbors that lead to a violent neighbor being shot when he became physical over their lawns. This has the potential to come out the same way. The writer sympathizes with the wounded youth before finding out that the two boys may have been terrorizing the neighbor and not just innocently checking out some loud music. Time will tell, but I bet the newspaper won't.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
    "Baa."
    LTC(RET) Dave Grossman

    Revolutionary War Veterans Association Shooter Qualification: Cook

  6. #6
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Another question is, what were these boys doing out running the streets at 10:30 at night? Where is the parents responsibility for teaching there kids to respect the rights and property of others?
    That was exactly my first thought. Those children should have been at home and in bed at that hour.

    Personally, I would not have fired at people outside unless they were forcing their way into the house. There are alternatives that do not include deadly force, even if deadly force is justified.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    Everybody can armchair quarterback this one all they want, as this reporter is doing, but with home invaders hitting people all over the country and taking no prisoners, can anyone blame the elderly for not being scared out of their wits?? this poor guy will probably get charged with something, and that in itself is tragedy enough.

    Personally, I would have waited before i fired, but then I am a lot younger and quicker......
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    They can't even prove that these "kids" were just out looking for a party. Who says they weren't really casing the house?
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Gun Bunny's Avatar
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    Even the police said the kid was shot 2 or 3 feet outside of the window. To me that is a little to close to be passing by!
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    As far as I'm concerned, that kid, his family and everybody else conserned should be down on their knees thanking God that the old man didn't use a 12 gauge. Lesson learned...Texans don't take lightly to prowlers.
    "Any rationally thinking person is armed" ---Hinds Co. constable John Lewis

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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    If Mr. Blow informs us that he's taking evening walks through all varied areas of Dallas over the next year, I'll listen to him. Otherwise he can Blow for all he's worth. Dallas is a violent place.

  12. #12
    New Member Array Texbow's Avatar
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    I don't know guys, I have mixed feelings about this one. In my neighborhood there are several kids and I'm sure some have run across my yard or been screwing around at night without there parents knowing they were in my yard. I would hate to shoot some kid just because he was goofing off in my lawn. I don't know to many teenagers who can think past Friday night much less the consequences of being misidentified as a prowler.

    I admit that I live in an area that is does not have a reputation or history of crime. I just would not assume that someone in my yard was out to get me or break in. Now if it was 2:00 AM and it was my backyard then I would be on a higher level of alert and it would be a dangerous situation for that person. I'm just not ready to start shooting people that are running across my front yard at 10:30 at night. It's fairly common for teenagers to "roll" as in toilet paper a house, mine has been and I assumed it was a case of having the wrong house. I would hate for someone to shoot a teenager with a roll to toilet paper in his or her hand.

    I have more faith in my ability to determine if someone is really trying to break in my house and do not feel the desperation to shoot without knowing so.

    Maybe there is more to this story.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    But feeling nervous or frightened can't become our standard for opening fire. If so, it's really going to get ugly out there.
    Absolute truth. It must, of necessity, be that actual threat to life exists. Anything less results in things getting ugly very quickly. Imagine all the instances of shadows or noises outside that, if fired blindly upon, could result in the death of family, neighbors.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  14. #14
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    If they had simple been running across the yard, that is one thing, they climbed over a fence, and were sneeking through the yard. Stupid thing to do, even for a teenager.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Based on the stories I've read (which almost always contain half-truths)...I think the old man over-reacted. Some here doubted the party story, some also doubt the boy's intentions...but from where I sit, I would not fire semi-blindly through a window no matter what.

    As for wandering through a yard...it is sad that we have seen the enemy and it is I. Shoot first, ask questions later society.

    Rick

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