Steve's ''experience".

This is a discussion on Steve's ''experience". within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Steve (sm) posted this elsewhere but was happy that I could post it here - it's a good read from my raconteur friend and provides ...

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Thread: Steve's ''experience".

  1. #1
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    Steve's ''experience".

    Steve (sm) posted this elsewhere but was happy that I could post it here - it's a good read from my raconteur friend and provides interesting food for thought.

    I think he did Ok - very OK.

    I didn't get shot...
    ...nor did I shoot.

    I did get myself distanced, observed and reported.

    Just last night I went out to train my brain, and do some night shooting
    with all the meaness and car-jackings going on around here. I kept
    saying over and over to some folks Don't be where trouble is - leave if
    trouble comes.

    One never knows the where or when of next encounter-CRSam.

    Location:
    Strip center just off a busy city 4 lane. Front door parking, and
    approximatly Four rows X Fifteen vehicles parking area between strip
    center and busy thoroughfare.

    I pulled into lot, proceeded to park in front of tobacco store for
    smokes. I had not pulled all the way forward when I notice the two early
    twenties youths 'arguing' and one female being "pointed" at.

    I immediatly went from yellow-orange to red. I put my truck in reverse
    and had to wait for a vehicle to pass. I kept watching rear-view and the
    "situation". I can leave and get smokes elsewhere...

    Punches thrown, then fight goes to hood of maroon car next to me, cell
    phone used to hit the one on top in the head.

    People inside store are at the big glass window, and door - just
    watching. Standing up and watching ... less than 4 feet of distance.

    I can back up - finally.

    Chrome gun is pointed at me, from a distance of him standing on parking
    lot just off the business sidewalk and the length of my hood. I get
    below dash, I can see from passenger side mirror a wee bit, I gotta get
    distance, distance...distance...

    I get parallel to strip center, I raise up to get my head over to my
    driver's door I have cracked, I can drive with head down and door cracked.

    The one youth tries to fire at the other youth, racks slide, points at
    me again. I sped down to some empty spaces in parking area in the midst
    of lot, a big SUV for cover, and I can observe, since I parked so poorly
    taking up more than one space.

    People are standing on the sidewalk. NOT behind the approx 4 foot square
    columns, right there in the open as close as 6 feet behind the youth
    with the gun.

    I get both vehicles descriptions,, who is driving what, as they leave in
    a big hurry- license plates are inked onto my palm, along with an arrow
    as to which direction they pulled out of lot onto thoroughfare.

    I ease into Smoke shop "Everyone okay?"

    Bad language, folks shaking, and one girl on the phone, with 911. She
    was having a real hard time trying to hold phone, and talk. "Here - you
    do it"...she lost it. I just let her read off my palm the #'s, and then
    repeated them loud enough to be heard by 911.

    I gave vehicle descriptions, plates, directions.

    I helped myself to styrofoam cups and went outide to cover the unfired
    ctgs. Finally one male from inside store came out, I informed him do NOT
    touch those, and keep folks and traffic from parking onto them.

    I eased up and down finding and marking a few more. Along with looking
    for anything else of use

    Officer shows up. The girl that had handed me the phone came out to door
    to holler at the male employee. Tells officer " he kept pointing the gun
    at this guy [me] and trying to shoot...".

    Officer ask to see my ID, he also sees CCW permit. I nodded affirmative
    before he asked me if I was CCW-ing at the moment, or during situation.

    He asked what was the deal was with the cups inverted on the lot, and
    sidewalk ... I told him. He grinned and gathered up the ctgs. .32ACPs.
    Then I gave my account, described the 3 persons, and what the gun looked
    like, direction they left ...etc.

    Never asked me anything about my gun, just looked me straight in the eye
    and did that head nod - we understood each other.

    The male employee has the cell phone, in pcs from hitting the one youth,
    in a napkin. He snagged it while I was marking ctgs. Officer add this to
    evidence.

    The officer was very polite, firm, still polite- "did it ever dawn on
    anyone to lock the front door, and seek cover away from a gun being
    pointed and waved around less that 5 steps away?

    Another male comes from out of the back room, " did I miss something?" .
    He totally froze and lost it, and he was not around or aware of all this
    going on.

    One female, just up and said today is her last day. She starts a new job
    next Monday - she has been afraid something like this would happen.

    Officer said I would be contacted if/ as needed. He appreciated my
    assistance and again he looked me straight in the eye, and gave that
    certain nod of understanding as I left.

    ---

    Broad daylight, folks out and about. Situations happen in the blink of
    an eye.

    I have been mulling this over. I probably made some mistakes, at this
    moment, I don't see them.

    Only thing that comes to mind is I did have options, the most glaring
    is, if that gun had gone off while he was at my hood, quicker to throw
    gearshift down into drive and run truck at him. This would have stopped
    an immediate threat . Behind him was glass storefront with bars on the
    inside of tobacco store.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Thats a Wild Deal for sure He did best he could as fast as he could Kudos there

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    My goodness that was dangerous! If that had gone just a little bit different....

    It would be interesting to ask why he didn't shoot when they pointed the gun at him!

  5. #4
    XD9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    It would be interesting to ask why he didn't shoot when they pointed the gun at him!
    He mentions that people were standing a mere 6 feet behind the BG w/ the gun. Duck and cover would have definately been the only option.

    What a good account. Gave me chills to think how level-headed "Steve" stayed through all that. Very impressive.
    There are 2 sounds in the world that strike more fear than any others. A click when you should hear a bang and a bang when you should hear a click.

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    He did outstanding remaining calm and evaluating the next step to take with a gun pointed at him. Yeah, he deserves a pat on the back for sure.
    As you slide down the banister of life,
    May the splinters never point the wrong way.
    ---
    NRA Life Member

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    Folks - Steve has learned a lot about his locality, and ''things'' - and has worked hard over the years on keeping his head. This is one occasion when that all came together I'd say.

    My - I am glad it's so (relatively) quiet and peaceful round here!
    Last edited by P95Carry; October 6th, 2005 at 11:34 PM.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  8. #7
    sm
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    Hello.

    I ask Chris to share this because I have been busy. The reality is, if I may be blunt, bad stuff happens to good folks.


    One learns from mistakes - less painful and costly if someone elses.
    NO matter what the mall ninjas and armchair warriors 'may say'.

    I am no big deal, I know that. My life has...my elephants may not have been as numerous or as big as many others - mine are mine still the same.

    I do not have Problem 2 to contend with as matters turned out. This is a good thing.

    Using my vehicle to stop an immediate threat - IMO - would have been a "lesser" Problem 2.

    Forget caliber wars, Bedford Forrest said it best - Be the firstest with the mostest

    My stride is such one step is one yard. I was not fully forward in parking space. The BG was off sidewalk and on asphalt. I walked this off later - 3steps to front of my truck, add one step for where he was standing. 4 yds.

    There exists the Rule of Threes 3secs, 3 shots, 3 yards.

    I know the Tueller drill very very well. 1.5 seconds and 21 FEET covered, 7 yards if you will.

    While I am a fan of Ruark...Use Enough Truck would have stopped this immediate threat. Keep on trucking onto sidewalk, plate glass widow with inside bars, a brick base for glass approx 18" from sidewalk.

    I have shot vehicle glass, from inside and outside in my training if you will. I know how a .32ACP reacts to windshields. Granted I did not know it was a .32ACP at the time, muzzle looked bigger. I do recall "his damn finger is in trigger guard and his backstop choices are ME and my truck!.

    These youths cared not one whit about anyone viewing them, the fight, the gun. Not one whit. Brandishing if you will - ha, the gun would not fire, he keep racking and trying to get the gun to fire. Intent of the user -not the tool. It is always the intent - not the tool.

    As I shared - who knows why the gun did not go off. At the time, I really did not care about such questions.

    Maybe he kept hitting mag release, used something to deaden Primers like WD40, wrong mag, wrong ammo...forgot to take off safety...who knows?

    I will put it this way. I had my windshield b/t me and him. As stated, POA/POI when bullets hit glass - glass does strange things to bullets and path. Better to have my windshield than my door windows, different types of glass react differently.
    I also know what having nothing b/t you and BG is like - and his gun is firing.

    These all differ from hiding behind a monitor of course, and differs greatly from someone that does not shoot, never had instruction of any kind, only "commanding" from behind a monitor, is their best effort. Yes I meant for that to come out tacky. I have always taking these matters very serious. I have my fun on forums - I admit this. Some things hit very close to home, and some things are just that serious to me.

    Denny responeded - I stayed in the fight without engaging the fight.
    I was taught by my mentors to do this whenever I can.

    I made my goal for the day. I survived to make it home.

    I have been back to the scene twice now. Once after they closed - but still daylight. I had to face the demons again. I had to face it and put closure to it. I had to access and debrief myself.

    I went back again the second time after dark. Things look different at night. I wanted to note the difference. These things I had to know and file away in my brain.

    WE are to share experience strength and hope. WE may not ever be in these situations we read. These situations may not apply to us. Never hurts to have it read, filed away, we never know...then again we might, or know of someone it could help. Pass it forward.

    Regards,

    Steve
    Last edited by Betty; October 7th, 2005 at 12:04 PM. Reason: edited by request of sm
    Use Enough Gun

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    Edit made Steve - sorry I probably should have kept that out!

    Thx for dropping by old friend.

    (Can't delete that first para' for you - not my forum to mod!)
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Steve,
    I'm glad you came out of that. What a scary situation! I hope you'll be okay.

    I'm amazed that everybody else stood around instead of ducking for cover. I wonder what was going through their heads. Were they so paralyzed by the situation? Did they somehow get it into their heads that they were "safe" because they weren't the ones being shot at? It may have been the usual groupthink - if one person stands around and does nothing, they all do.

    (I'll delete the first paragraph for you.)
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  11. #10
    sm
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    Thank You Betty.

    Yes I am fine.

    I am drawing a blank on a particular term I want to use, essentially folks were "frozen in place". Shock perhaps. The term we have heard used escapes me.

    This is why we are told to "move" , get distance, do something even if wrong if you will. Standing there frozen, not only makes one a better target/ victim/ collateral damage...one's thought processes are frozen.

    Doing something, movement, anything assists to free up these "frozen" senses and - get the senses flowing and some "hopefully" good synapeses will kick in.

    Good example - Grocery stores.

    Yes I do wierd stuff like watch the human zoo, I learn from it tho'.

    A person will see a shopping buggy is rolling down the lot, headed straight for their expensive car. Buggy has a long distance to travel so the person just stands there, frozen, makes no effort to move and stop the buggy. Cannot yell, just stands there and "bang" - dent. Only after the crash and noise does the person snap out of it.

    Same situation, this time another person yells to them, or perhaps drops a sack of groceries and glass breaks, maybe someone b/t buggy and car runs to stop buggy.

    Sometimes the person is still frozen. Sometimes the 'action' of another snaps them out of it.

    In my situation , screaming, noise, cussing of the 3 persons in this altercation did not snap anyone out of anything. Patrons on sidewalk did not even consider getting behind 4 ft sq columns, get into another business. Folks behind glass, less than five feet away, just stood there...with a gun being waved, pointed and whatever. Never even thought the fight might come inside.

    I am constantly telling mom just because she does have a handicapped hang tag, and can park at the door of places - while being less of a "prey old lady" by not having to walk the distance across the parking lot...she is still a "prey old lady" at the front door parking space.

    Mom is more freaked than I am. She still thinks It will not happen to her.

    Mom had her best freind of 50 years mugged in a lot - later died from injuries. Nobody yelled, came to her assistance - nothing.

    I have to accept my mom is a sheep. Sheepdogs, are not even always safe, and cannot shadow all sheep all the time - not even if that sheep is their mom.

    Chris...
    Yeah I know it is time for me to leave here. I'm working on it.
    I checked for the sake of checking - and still nobody wants to adopt me. Never hurts to check...
    Guess I better work harder on them other options - huh?
    Use Enough Gun

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