Managers, customer all draw guns: Merged

This is a discussion on Managers, customer all draw guns: Merged within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Check this out. Could have been real bad. Managers, customer all draw guns in West Palm Beach grocery Thankfully the guy was a bad shot. ...

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Thread: Managers, customer all draw guns: Merged

  1. #1
    Member Array Bline's Avatar
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    Managers, customer all draw guns: Merged

    Check this out. Could have been real bad.

    Managers, customer all draw guns in West Palm Beach grocery


    Thankfully the guy was a bad shot. I hope the security vid gets posted.
    In God we trust, everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.

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    VIP Member Array deadeye72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bline View Post
    Thankfully the guy was a bad shot. I hope the security vid gets posted.

    +1 This could have turned out a lot worse. Good for the manager and assistant manager for being armed. They apparently could not get a clean shot since they never fired back. I too hope they post the secutiry video.
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    New Member Array Kilo's Avatar
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    Managers, customer all draw guns......

    Managers, customer all draw guns in West Palm Beach grocery
    Click-2-Listen
    By Sonja Isger

    Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

    Tuesday, April 29, 2008

    WEST PALM BEACH — It could've been a typical spat between grocery store customer and manager, with the customer announcing he planned to take his business elsewhere. But then the customer drew his gun. The store manager drew his and so did the assistant manager.

    It all happened at 5 p.m. Monday at the IGA Supermarket at 1000 36th St. in West Palm Beach. And in the end, West Palm Beach police arrested customer Marshall Hugo Grant for attempted first degree murder, shooting into an occupied dwelling, aggravated assault with a firearm and carrying a concealed firearm.

    Police reported Tuesday morning that Grant, 73, entered the store through the exit despite manager Marino Hernandez's warning not to enter that way. The confrontation escalated, Grant drew a handgun, assistant manager Roberto Espinal drew his handgun. Hernandez also pulled a gun. Grant backed out of the store firing three times as he went, the arrest report states.

    The managers, who witnesses said never returned fire, ended up surrounding Grant, who hid behind a vehicle while continuing to fire, police report. Grant eventually surrendered his weapon to the managers once they told him police were on their way.

  5. #4
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    Good actions by the managers,

    They contained the BG (who was 73!) and held him until the Police showed up with out firing a shot.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Don't know why entering through an exit would cause a manager to alienate a customer, but that's no excuse for the customers' gun-play. Good job managers.
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    It seems that he had prior history besides this little tiff with the store owner. Check out the first charge!

    Name: GRANT, MARSHALL HUGO Race: Black DOB: 05/03/1935
    Address:
    1003 GRANT ST
    WEST PALM BEACH, FL 33407 Facility: Main Detention Center
    Cell Location:M-S-06-C-21U-B
    Booking Number: 2008026033
    OBTS Number: N/A Booking Date: 04/28/2008 Time: 22:25
    Arresting Agency: 94 - WEST PALM BEACH Officer: HOUSTON
    Release Date: N/A Holds For Other Agencies:No
    Warrant Number: N/A Jacket Number: 0371889
    Charges:
    782.04-2536 HOMICIDE-WILFUL KILL-MURDER WHILE ENGAGED IN CERTAIN FELONY OFFENSE

    Original Bond: $0.00 Current Bond: $0.00
    790.19-2668 WEAPON OFFENSE-MISSILE INTO DWELLING VEH BUILDING OR AIRCRAFT

    Original Bond: $0.00 Current Bond: $0.00
    784.021-2558 AGGRAV ASSLT - WEAPON-W DEADLY WEAPON WITHOUT INTENT TO KILL

    Original Bond: $0.00 Current Bond: $0.00
    790.01-2616 CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPON-FIREARM

    Original Bond: $3,000.00 Current Bond: $3,000.00
    The others seem related to the grocery store.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    This is a perfect example toward concealed carry at multiple levels.

    First it shows the very real and significant differences amongst concealed carry. We have three people doing so. One is a criminal acting person who is carrying with no permit/license who also is irrational as based on actions plural resulting in his brandishing of the weapon (stage 1) and ultimately discharge at others both being criminal by intent.
    Then we have two _victims_ who also are carrying concealed but they have done everything correctly. They are first and foremost licensed and permitted to do so. They when threatened and subsequently engaged by the BG with his brandished firearm they deploy their own self defense tools and go to the position of defense, and this is key. The good and lawful guys with guns were defensive while it was the BG who was to the offense.
    The BG fires shots at them and they while taking cover and/or concealment hold the guy by positioning without themselves actually firing a shot. They are able to do so and hold him because the BG knows he is now both outnumbered as well as each of his victims are in fact equally enabled as he is. His intended targets are empowered with equalizers. That is what carry and self defense in general and overall is all about. Being equal and having a fighting chance to survive, upon being victimized....not to be the victimizer.
    The good guys even went so far as to show excellent judgment and restraint to not return fire but by their positioning to hold the guys in position until the cops arrived while the bad man continued to discharge rounds in their direction (attempted murder).
    This is how most often concealed carry cases go down when it comes to mano y mano combat on the street. Further disallowing citizens from being able to defend themselves such as in this case for fear that they might flip out or injure others is baseless as per wide results, and not just as in recently reported FL.
    The bad guy he was not licensed and yet he still had a gun. How and why is of no relevance to we good guy citizens on the other side of the barrel. At the time of action against no one is going to ask a criminal acting BG hey where did you get a gun and are you licensed to carry that? Equally a bad guy upon finding the tables turned is not going to ask a citizen GG same. What will occur is as in this case the BG most often will retreat for fear of his own life. Further the GGs in this case saved not only their own life but that of their customers and the general population who just happened tp by chance be standing next to and near them as this went down, which includes the majority who were not licensed to carry. As well they saved the life of the BG too (!) by use of tactics and techniques to not fire one shot while actively containing him which ultimately resulted in his surrender.

    This story is exactly what _lawful_ and _legalized_ citizen concealed carry and defense of self is all about.
    Citizens win, communities win, and BGs most often upon running up on a citizen who is 'licensed to carry' or is an off duty police who carries finds himself with a loss of advantage and very much often in these cases is at a loss.

    Thank you for posting this!!

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    New Member Array Redcap's Avatar
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    Sounds like a tight management team. This is a great example of restraint as well. No shots fired by the victims in spite of the fact that they were armed, justified, and they outnumbered the BG. Great story, thanks for sharing it!

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    Senior Member Array Cthulhu's Avatar
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    Please tell me this twit (BG) was illegally carrying. Otherwise, I can see the antis having fun with this one.

    If he WAS legally carrying and pulled this stunt, he's outlived his usefulness.

    -JT

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Yes, he was carrying unlawfully.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    It's a shame he is still around to stand trial and waste all that money.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  13. #12
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    This just in...

    King IGA Grocery 1

    BG Grant 0

    Final Score...
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    Senior Member Array MilitaryPower's Avatar
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    Woohoo! Another one bites the dust.
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    Guns drawn during grocery stand off

    Too much arguing going on, I'm staying quite!

    By ELIOT KLEINBERG Palm Beach Post Staff Writer Tuesday, April 29, 2008

    Manager recounts shooting in West Palm Beach grocery;

    WEST PALM BEACH — Being a lousy shot might well have saved Marshall Hugo Grant's life.

    After Grant fired three times Monday from the doorway of the King IGA grocery store, manager Marino Hernandez made a split-second decision not to fire back.

    "I was afraid he was going to keep shooting, but I already had in mind that he wasn't a good shooter," Hernandez said Tuesday.

    Grant, 73, appeared Tuesday morning before Judge Nancy Perez, who ordered him held without bond while he undergoes a psychiatric examination.

    Grant was a daily customer who'd never been a problem, said Hernandez, who manages the large supermarket at 1000 36th St.

    On Monday afternoon, Grant and Hernandez argued after he tried to enter the store through the exit.

    "I said, 'You know what? Take your business elsewhere,'" Hernandez said.

    Grant then drew a handgun. Assistant manager Roberto Espinal, behind a side counter, drew his gun. When Grant turned that way, Hernandez pulled his gun.

    It was 5 p.m., and the store was jammed with customers, loading up for dinner on their way home, who hadn't counted on a three-way standoff.

    Grant made the first move. He backed out of the store and started firing.

    One bullet struck the front wall above the doorway, one hit the wall beside the door, and one imbedded in the ceiling over the cash registers.

    One cashier, all of 16 years old, was on her first day on the job.

    "A lot of chicken was left on shopping carts," Hernandez said. "Customers started screaming, going for the floor."

    But, he said, "I'm a quick thinker. When I saw the first bullet hit high, right away I knew I was dealing with someone that was not a good shooter."

    The two managers surrounded Grant as he backed into the parking lot, hid behind a car, and fired a fourth shot.

    "He said, 'You calling the police?'" I said, 'Hell, yeah I am.'" Hernandez said. "I said, 'Put the gun down. Put the gun down. It's not worth it.' Then he said, 'You're going to beat me up if I put the gun down.' I said, 'I'm not going to beat you up.' "

    Police then arrived and took Grant away. He was charged with attempted first-degree murder, shooting into an occupied dwelling, aggravated assault with a firearm and carrying a concealed firearm.

    Staff writer Sonja Isger contributed to this story.
    Last edited by socuban; April 29th, 2008 at 06:03 PM. Reason: wrong title

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    Member Array Dusty Miller's Avatar
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    The managers knew this guy and also knew that gun'n him down was not the answer to this situation. Amazing restraint in the face of a real threat.

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