GOOD: Car Jacker Shot By Car Owner - Memphis, TN

This is a discussion on GOOD: Car Jacker Shot By Car Owner - Memphis, TN within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; The shooter would probably be in prison for even thinking about bringing his gun outside....

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Thread: GOOD: Car Jacker Shot By Car Owner - Memphis, TN

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    The shooter would probably be in prison for even thinking about bringing his gun outside.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array sui-juris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Wait a minute...I think he/it WAS a 'crack' shot...
    Too good!
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    My opinion is even though he may be in the right to shoot the BG after repeated attempts to remove him from the car verbally he was able to walk away and call the LEOs. Let the LEO take him away and insurance replace his stuff. Isn't that what we are supposed to do as responsible citizens who happen to carry guns? I live in TX where it most likely would go no farther than my own driveway.

    But then again if I were in the same situation I would probably have done the same thing. I'm just floating this option out there to see what others think.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    A little scary when you repeatedly order someone to get out and not only do they completely ignore you but you cannot see their hands. Makes you wonder if the elevator is stopping at all floors. The average person would at least acknowledge the owner's presence. Owner probably thought it was a little unusual and creepy to have this guy act like the owner was not even there. That is why I said it changed things a bit.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcb188 View Post
    A little scary when you repeatedly order someone to get out and not only do they completely ignore you but you cannot see their hands. Makes you wonder if the elevator is stopping at all floors. The average person would at least acknowledge the owner's presence. Owner probably thought it was a little unusual and creepy to have this guy act like the owner was not even there. That is why I said it changed things a bit.
    That is a very good point, makes you wonder if he is on something. There is always the possibility the perp could have been Deaf (but that is slim), so it makes you wonder "why is he not responding, is he on something? Where are his friggin hands, is he holding something, what could it be? What do I do if he pops out and turns toward me real quickly? Why won't he answer me, or even turn and look at me? Aw hell, BANG!"

    At least that is what would probably run through my head in this situation.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  7. #36
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    Me too. I think the GG way way overreacted but a jury would probably be sympathetic to him, just enough for the NG verdict. But he was not wise to do what he did. But my whole point was this: That taking the totality of circumstances into consideration, the jury will probably look at it as slightly more than a mere defense of property action and that will save the GG
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    You guys are going way overboard with this. It doesn't matter what a jury might or might not say.

    He was not charged. Just as it should be.

    The responding police obviously thought he was in the right.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  9. #38
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    As you know, a DA down the road can always file charges, regardless of what LEOS at scene say. Unlikely but it happens. Also happens that if LEOS do make an arrest, the DAs can add charges later on too, after they read the police reports and make their own determinations.
    And not only that, but our discussion revolved around what might happen if a jury got ahold of this. We just wanted to bat it around a little bit.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    Now, I think I initially said great for GG then someone said it was an iffy shoot and that is what started the discussion. So I still defended GG, but said that he took a chance.
    But the single most important point of all this is that discussions are harmless. So we continue doing it even if it is a hypothetical.
    No such thing as going overboard in a discussion where all participants are willing participants.....
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    In this case you are right, the LEO and the DA felt it was not necessary to charge him. BUT, it may become relevant in the future if this type of situation occurs and the LEO or DA don't see it the way we all, and the parties in this case, see it. That is how precedents get set, in my limited legal knowledge, and future cases are decided.

    For example what if the DA in this case had been an activist DA and wanted to make a point out of this guy exercising his right to protect life and property. What if the DA had the mindset that the homeowner should have tried to understand the plight of the BG and that he was only trying to provide for himself because society has dumped on him for so long this was all he could do (I just threw up in my mouth for even typing all that).

    I think we are all simply playing the "what if" game in case this ever is presented to us. Unless we are all just over anxious paranoid freaks who think the World is out to get us so we arm up and walk around locked and loaded. Either option is fine with me.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  12. #41
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    Absolutely. We are not limited to talking about real situations and if someone says oh he wasn't charged then we sign off the forums??? We continue on, as we did when someone said it was an iffy shoot and he had a valid point, so we kept on talking. Those who wish to participate do, those who don't are not forced into it......It is all voluntary :)
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Well, by way of comparison, suppose you are inside and realize somebody is sneaking around your house, trying windows and stuff. He is attempting to commit a felony (burglary), and (whether or not it is a smart idea) you legally go outside and challenge him at gunpoint---citizen's arrest (or citizen's detention for you NC folks).

    All legal up to this point. You point your gun to apprehend a felon, felon looks at you, hands in pockets and...does nothing. Does he have a weapon in there? Is he waiting until your attention wavers to kill you?

    This is, I think, where the "reasonable man" approach enters. The guy refusing to put his hands up or even react to you after you challenge him is behaving irrationally...unless he thinks he can overcome your obvious show of force and win the encounter. I think the very lack of reaction by the bad guy does give the reasonable man pause to consider just why the BG is doing what he is doing. Since you have already caught him in a felony, I'd have to say things like deafness should fall pretty far down the list of explanations.

    In reality, it probably comes down to local attitudes (cops, DA, and/or jurors) because this really does seem to be a borderline case. It is right in the middle between the really bad shooting of a fleeing man and the very clear shooting of a an active lethal threat. This is one where I would be very curious to be on the jury if it were to go to trial to really try and figure out what the shooter was thinking when it went down.
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  14. #43
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    I see what you mean, but I see the inside the car, not looking at you, not seeing his hands at all as a little bit better for the GG, scenario wise, than the outdoor scenario.
    As it is, the GG overreacted but the exact fact situation will probably save him in front of a jury if he or someone like him gets there.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    As for the car, I might have kicked the guy in the offered target area (with gun drawn and ready depending on the result) just to make sure I had his attention. Overall, though, I think that lack of reaction is probably about the most unnerving thing a BG could do. Attack, well, we all think about that. Flee, that's reasonable, too. Nothing, though...that's just, well, wrong.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    That is funny, giving him a swift kick. That would get his attention.
    But I thought of how unnerving it must be to get no reaction from the BG.
    I was going to bring up this topic in some other thread we were talking about in Are You EyeBalling Me. Did you see that thread?
    I thought later about if someone approaches you and speaks to you, a BG I mean, and you, the intended victim, just stare and him without saying a word, that would be really unusual, because I know that criminal types tend to go back and forth and posture a lot and oh yeah, well I will do this oh yeah then i would do this and that is the way they operate. So I wondered what would happen if one of them approached a GG and the GG remains silent and just stares. Wouldn't that be effective????? Probably calls for another thread, and I think I will start one about it. I would like to know what people think about it.
    As a tactic. Besides just shooting him.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

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