GOOD: Car Jacker Shot By Car Owner - Memphis, TN

This is a discussion on GOOD: Car Jacker Shot By Car Owner - Memphis, TN within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; This is definately within the law in Texas. During the night the laws really are on the side of the property owner here. I am ...

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Thread: GOOD: Car Jacker Shot By Car Owner - Memphis, TN

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    This is definately within the law in Texas. During the night the laws really are on the side of the property owner here. I am surprises that so many on here are saying the guy is lucky if he isn't prosecuted. I am not sure of the laws in TN, buy why do so many here feeling that the BG should get all the rights and not the property owner.

    Gotta love Texas.

    Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
    (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
    (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
    (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
    (3) he reasonably believes that:
    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
    Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

    Edited adding the following:

    Applicable TN law is the following.


    39-11-621. Use of deadly force by private citizen. —
    A private citizen, in making an arrest authorized by law, may use force reasonably necessary to accomplish the arrest of an individual who flees or resists the arrest; provided, that a private citizen cannot use or threaten to use deadly force except to the extent authorized under self-defense or defense of third person statutes, §§ 39-11-611 and 39-11-612.
    [Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1.]


    39-11-611. Self-defense. —
    (a) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:
    (1) “Curtilage” means the area surrounding a dwelling that is necessary, convenient and habitually used for family purposes and for those activities associated with the sanctity of a person's home;
    (2) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, that has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed for or capable of use by people;
    (3) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides, either temporarily or permanently, or is visiting as an invited guest, or any dwelling, building or other appurtenance within the curtilage of the residence; and
    (4) “Vehicle” means any motororized vehicle that is self-propelled and designed for use on public highways to transport people or property.
    (b) (1) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force against another person when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force.
    (2) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, a person who is not engaged in unlawful activity and is in a place where the person has a right to be has no duty to retreat before threatening or using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury, if:
    (A) The person has a reasonable belief that there is an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury;
    (B) The danger creating the belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury is real, or honestly believed to be real at the time; and
    (C) The belief of danger is founded upon reasonable grounds.
    (c) Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury within a residence, dwelling or vehicle is presumed to have held a reasonable belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury to self, family, a member of the household or a person visiting as an invited guest, when that force is used against another person, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, dwelling or vehicle, and the person using defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.
    (d) The presumption established in subsection (c) shall not apply, if:
    (1) The person against whom the force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder; provided, that the person is not prohibited from entering the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle by an order of protection, injunction for protection from domestic abuse, or a court order of no contact against that person;
    (2) The person against whom the force is used is attempting to remove a person or persons who is a child or grandchild of, or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of, the person against whom the defensive force is used;
    (3) Notwithstanding § 39-17-1322, the person using force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or
    (4) The person against whom force is used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in § 39-11-106, who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of the officer's official duties, and the officer identified the officer in accordance with any applicable law, or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.
    (e) The threat or use of force against another is not justified:
    (1) If the person using force consented to the exact force used or attempted by the other individual;
    (2) If the person using force provoked the other individual's use or attempted use of unlawful force, unless:
    (A) The person using force abandons the encounter or clearly communicates to the other the intent to do so; and
    (B) The other person nevertheless continues or attempts to use unlawful force against the person; or
    (3) To resist a halt at a roadblock, arrest, search, or stop and frisk that the person using force knows is being made by a law enforcement officer, unless:
    (A) The law enforcement officer uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest, search, stop and frisk, or halt; and
    (B) The person using force reasonably believes that the force is immediately necessary to protect against the law enforcement officer's use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.
    [Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1030, § 8; 2007, ch. 210, § 1.]
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    It's not that we think the BG should get all the rights. I keep saying elsewhere on the forums that Texas is the way America used to be before it lost its common sense. I lived in DFW area and Wichita Falls at one time.
    What we are saying is that in a lot of states where right from wrong is not so clearly known by all, anything can happen re being charged with a crime depending on the exact facts of the scenario. I personally have zero doubt that a Texas jury would do the right thing. I have every doubt that a Massachusetts jury would always do the right thing.
    Where guns are involved, and all of you know this, it is a cultural thing. In Texas and elsewhere guns are normal. My dad was from Oklahoma so I had a rifle when I was 10. But here in "gun country" as I said somewhere else on the forums, when someone knows you have a firearm they ask you the same two questions: Why do you carry that? Is it loaded?
    They look on guns here the same way you would look at a guy who walked into a bar for a cold beer and he had a complete combat-ready flamethrower on his back complete with all combat accessories and he was just sitting there drinking a beer. The same fear, concerns, wonderment that you would feel is how these people around here feel about guns. They were never exposed to them, they have never even held a .22 pistol in their hands, they have never fired a weapon of any kind. It is an alien concept.
    In their minds only criminals have guns. They just do not understand, and it is not malicious, they do not understand the value of firearms for protection. In a lot of states you had better be really right re shooting someone or you might very well be convicted.
    Look at how some of the northeast states have put COPS on trial for shooting BGs. How often does that happen in the South and in the West?
    So it is definitely a cultural thing and those of us from these questionable states always harp on being careful careful careful so you do not end up with some jury convicting you on what THEY would consider a borderline shooting but in Texas you would get a medal.
    Now, we have self defense up here too. But the law is frequently disregarded by jurors when they feel like doing so. They are required to follow the law but they are not required to find you NG unless there is still a reasonable doubt after the prosecution has presented its case. You do not have to be guilty to be found guilty, in any state.
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
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  4. #48
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    You guys are going way overboard with this.
    The purpose of these threads is to provoke discussion. So long as the issues are kicked around, the purpose of learning from various viewpoints is served. Tomayto, tomahto.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  5. #49
    Senior Member Array dcb188's Avatar
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    No such thing as overboard between consenting parties
    Surrounded and outnumbered, Marine Col Lewis Puller: "Good! We finally got 'em where we want 'em!" (Korea, 1950)
    __________________________________
    Right is Wrong and Wrong is Right.
    __________________________________
    Socrates : "Knowledge is knowing that we know nothing".

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