Man Kills Agressive Pit Bull - Boise, ID
This is a discussion on Man Kills Agressive Pit Bull - Boise, ID within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Rustynuts
The operative word for dogs is "MOST". NO gun will jump up and shoot someone on it's own.
And nither will ...
June 5th, 2008 10:18 PM
And nither will a porperly trained and socialized dog.
Originally Posted by Rustynuts
Again people are the problem in ALL bad dog cases.
If a gun can't jump up and shoot someone, why is that people are afraid of the gun?
Last edited by Carpet475; June 5th, 2008 at 10:22 PM.
Reason: to add more
June 5th, 2008 10:35 PM
Every month or so we have a thread debating pit bulls. Each and every time it is because a pit bull has killed or maimed someone. I do understand those who love a particular breed. I love beagles. But I have yet to see a thread concerning a beagle that has killed a child.
Pit bulls were specifically bred to fight to the death. That is their inbred temperament. Yes, they can be trained to suppress their natural tendencies but not reliably enough to protect the communitiy. Pit bulls should be eradicated.
For those who say they are good with children, they are only good with children they protect. Every other child is in grave danger in the presence of a pit bull. The best dog owner in the world has no control over a determined pit bull. And any owner that thinks differently is simply naive or overly emotional over the breed. I support every law to curb the violence of pit bulls. and every owner should be fully liable for any damage the dog causes just as if the owner did it. Pit bull kills child: premeditated murder sentence for the owner.
Pointing to another breed that occasionally has behavior problems does not justify the horrendous damage done by pit bulls.
June 5th, 2008 11:23 PM
I used to feel that way too SD, but then I got to know a couple of pitbulls that didn't have the temperment that I thought all pitbulls had. One was raised as a pet by a friend. It was a sweet, good natured dog to everyone.
The other dog was rescued from a dog fighting ring. She was going to be killed because she refused to fight. She scared the crap out of me once when she snuck away while her owner was working outside and came wandering into my house when I was moving a couch in. I knew her story, but this was a pitbull, right? I let her out and she followed me back to her house. I had my hand up, snapping my fingers to get her to follow me and she jumped up at my hand only to rub her head on it. She wanted to be pet, just like any other dog.
We lived in a neighborhood with a lot of kids and dogs and this pitbull never even barked or growled once at anyone or anything. She was the one that finally made be a believer that not all pitbulls are vicious and it has to be bred and taught to them. Breeding alone won't do it, and neither will just teaching. Yes, some pitbulls are bred for fighting, but not all of them. Also, not all of them are raised for fighting. Some of them, like this one are some of the gentlest dogs you've ever seen. They are like any other breed, and if people stopped trying to breed aggressiveness into them, they would eventually become as accepted as other dogs.
June 5th, 2008 11:44 PM
This new law in Texas could help some. I pray that it does. The other two dogs have now been destroyed.
Two more pit bulls ordered destroyed : Big Country : Abilene Reporter-News
By Kristi Hsu (Contact)
Wednesday, June 4, 2008
The two remaining dogs belonging to owners charged with the dog-mauling death of a 7-year-old Breckenridge boy were ordered to be destroyed Wednesday, according to the Justice of the Peace office in Stephens County.
Some of the four dogs belonging to Jack Smith, 45, and Crystal Watson, 27, reportedly attacked Tanner Monk, 7, on May 18 and he was found dead on County Road 415 in Stephens County, about 100 yards west of his family's house and about 50 to 70 yards west of the home where the dogs were kept.
Two of the dogs, both pit bulls, were shot on site after they became aggressive toward authorities at scene. Smith and Watson were arrested and charged with a second degree felony in connection with the death.
Bail was set at $250,000 for each, and both are still in custody.
The case is the first time a dog attack death has occurred since a stiff law went into effect in September. Under Lillian's Law, a dog attack that results in a death is a felony offense punishable by 20 years in prison and a maximum $10,000 fine.
Rep. Dan Gattis, R-Georgetown, sponsored the bill after Lillian Stiles, 76, was killed by a pack of dogs in 2005.
The bill was intended to make dog owners take more responsibility for their pets, said Marilyn Stiles Shoemaker, Lillian Stiles' daughter.
The two remaining dogs allegedly belonging to Smith and Watson are to be destroyed, although there is a 10-day appeal period. Stephens County Sheriff Jim Reeves previously said he believed the two dogs played a role in Monk's death.
Both dogs are in custody at the Breckenridge City Animal shelter.
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him." G.K. Chesterton
June 5th, 2008 11:47 PM
I partly agree with this. There are particular pit bulls that are simply wonderful dogs. But it isn't that some pit bulls are specifically bred for fighting, the breed was created for that specific purpose. Some don't fit the mold. But that does not mitigate the potential harm from a randomly selcted pit bull. And you never really know if any particular pit bull will not harm a child. As others have noted, most lethal pit bull attacks are the first ever for that particular individual.
Originally Posted by morintp
Dogs don't have to be taught to be vicious. Some breeds are vicious by nature. Pit bulls are one such breed. They can be trained [hopefully] not to attack on a whim. But at what cost? There are many great breeds of dog that will not need special training that is unproven to be completely effective at curbing the natural violence of pit bulls. We are not taking about extinction of a species, only eradication of a poor choice of breeding that has caused irreparable harm to innocent people.
As long as there are pit bulls there will be these awful stories of pit bull attacks. And every once in a while a great story that someone stopped the threat before it harmed a chid.
June 5th, 2008 11:53 PM
I would like to know more about where these Pits where bred and raised, because it seems to me that the closer you get to highly populated areas the more the bad Pits show up.
Where I live I can't recall if there has ever been a death by Pit bull.
It seams to reaffirm my thinking that these dogs come from areas where there is a market for dog fighting.
As a dog breeder I'm often sent stuff in my email, this is one I received and think most people should see if they think dog fighting is rare.
June 6th, 2008 12:04 AM
The English bulldog WAS one of those breeds bred for fighting in the 1800's to early 1900's, now look at them. With selective breeding it has become one of the most docile breeds out there. The same could be said of the Pit in years to come if given the chance.
Originally Posted by SelfDefense
So do you part and remove any dog that is aggressive from the gene pool.
June 6th, 2008 01:30 AM
You may be right about that. I live near a city that has an NFL team whose previous quarterback was REALLY into dog fighting (I won't mention the city.) In certain areas of town, it is not uncommon to see people walking pit bulls that have scars on their faces and exhibit a bad disposition.
Originally Posted by Carpet475
We occasionally have news reports of people being attacked by pit bulls. Given my experiences, it is easy for me to draw the conclusion that all pit bulls are dangerous.
Then again, I will be watching a dog show on TV and see Staffordshire Terriers that seem quite well mannered. Is it the breeding or the training?
June 6th, 2008 01:54 AM
Training 90% of the time. As with people you'll get bad unstable individuals.
Originally Posted by 1911packer
I have found smaller dogs to be more prone to biting as they tend to be more high strung, and the owners think that "it just a small dog" it doesn't need to be trained and as such they tend to be allowed to roam free more often then other dogs. Granted smaller dog usually stay closer to home then a large dog will.
June 6th, 2008 10:32 AM
ATTS - American Temperament test Society, Inc. - Home
pitt bulls score the same as boxers84.3%, higher than GSD 83.5%, Collies 79.4%, Beagels 80.3%, andScotties 63.6%.
Bull Terriers related to APBT scored an 88.8% higher than anything listed above. The same story with american bull dogs who scored 84.1% also related to the APBT.
And, the "pitt bulls" that you see on the news fighting and attacking people are not pitt bulls at all they are mutts muttants of the breed called american bullies.
June 6th, 2008 11:04 AM
I don't know everything there is to know about dogs or specifically pit bulls. One thing I do know is that the owner is responsible for their dog.
We had a pit bull mix, actually Akita, Pit Bull, Boxer, and German Shepard. Although he could have been considered aggressive (by breed), he was one of the best dogs I ever had.
Many dogs will chase and scare kids, their instinct makes them want to chase anything that moves. Kids get scared of an animal and they run, the dog instinctively chases them. Some dogs just chase, but the instinct of some dogs is to attack what they chase.
So as a responsible owner I always had my dog fenced or leashed. Around my grand daughters he was fine, but we never let the neighbor kids pet him without one of us having a hand on his collar. We knew his instinct and accommodated for it. We were also pretty strict with the neighbor kids too. We didn't let them pet him unless they were calm.
If a dog is bred and trained specifically for fighting and you rescue it you need to be responsible for it and make accommodations for it's training and instinct.
The responsibility rests on the owners not the breed. If you get a dog that in bred for running like a cattle dog of some sort you need to make sure the dog gets to run. If you get a dog that is bred for its aggressive nature, you need to make sure don't put the animal in a position to hurt anyone.
I've never owned a purebred pit, but have had friends that did. Knowing the breed you own and making the necessary accommodations for that specific breed makes all the difference in the world. I have no doubt that had we not been responsible for our dog he most probably would have hurt someone. That doesn't make him a bad dog, it would have mad us irresponsible owners.
For what it's worth,
June 6th, 2008 11:20 AM
June 6th, 2008 02:43 PM
How dare you confuse the issue with facts!!
Originally Posted by carbon
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper
"Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."
June 6th, 2008 03:03 PM
Those are bogus statistics and completely irrelevant.
Originally Posted by carbon
I won't argue the 'temperament' score. I'll admit that most poodles are more prone to bite than a Pit-bull or Rottweiler. I'll even admit that most dog bites are Black Labs.
But, I will say that out of severe or fatal dog bites, the percentage of Rott's and Pit-bull breeds are not even close to proportionate.
If we can say that 100 times as many poodle attacks happen as pit-bull attacks, than there should be 100 times more deaths by poodle than by pit-bull, right? Of course not. That is why your 'temperament statistics' do nothing to convince me that a pit-bull has any business being a family pet.
I own a ball python, which most people are afraid of...but I would never own a reticulated python. For the same reasoning I don't want me, or my family around any type of pitbull or rottweiler.
Animals are animals. There is no getting around it. If an animal resorts back to it's 'animal' ways, I want to make sure it can't eat me.
June 6th, 2008 06:20 PM
My personal experiences tend to support that. I used to have a job where I went into peoples homes. When they answered the door, I asked if they had a dog, and please put it up.
Originally Posted by Carpet475
The worst ones were the little breeds that would bite and run. The medium to large breeds were either friendly or were ready for a fight to the finish. These owners would have the gall to say, "Oh, he doesn't bite." Some wouldn't, some would.
You got a dog? Put it up or I'm not coming in.
Any strange dog in my yard is treated with suspicion and caution. I had to go after two in my back yard a few months back that has cornered a cat. I had my 1911 in my hand and off safety when I went to investigate. They ran when I barked at them.
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