Assault With A Deadly Backpack - Salt Lake City, UT

This is a discussion on Assault With A Deadly Backpack - Salt Lake City, UT within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Rebecca Walsh: Assault with a deadly backpack? - Salt Lake Tribune Have you heard about the wave of backpack crime sweeping the nation? Rampaging criminals ...

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Thread: Assault With A Deadly Backpack - Salt Lake City, UT

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    Distinguished Member Array CT-Mike's Avatar
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    Assault With A Deadly Backpack - Salt Lake City, UT

    Rebecca Walsh: Assault with a deadly backpack? - Salt Lake Tribune

    Have you heard about the wave of backpack crime sweeping the nation?
    Rampaging criminals breaking into homes, kidnapping, raping and murdering innocents while brandishing deadly Keltys and Jansports?
    Yeah. Me neither.
    So I'm a little mystified why George Harrison felt so threatened by an obviously obnoxious, apparently aggressive, couch-hopping homeless man who swung his backpack at Mama's Southern Plantation diners last week.
    We've all run into mumbling, stumbling misfits on the sidewalks downtown. Some rant and rave. Most of us walk away or call the police. But when 47-year-old Mike Mays reached into his pocket and "intimated he was reaching for a weapon in his pants," the part-time restaurant security guard didn't wait to find out if he was. Harrison pulled his concealed weapon and squeezed the trigger.
    A gun will always beat a backpack.
    The street fight between Harrison and Mays goes to the heart of our notions of a "reasonable" right to self-defense. Police shifted a good chunk of the blame to the dead man; he "contributed to the confrontation that ultimately led to his death." They tiptoed around the concealed-weapon carrier/Vietnam vet who killed him, questioning and releasing him the same afternoon; he was "very cooperative."
    How the case is handled is a matter of public policy and social conscience.

    Is starting an argument enough to get you killed on the streets of Salt Lake City now? Are concealed-weapon holders going to join the rarified ranks of the police - the only people we give a license to shoot-to-kill outside the battlefield and our own homes?
    This will come down to an interpretation of Utah law, which does not require a person to retreat if feeling threatened.
    "We're dealing with a human life here. From a moral standpoint, people ought to be willing to run away in the face of this kind of threat," says Steven Gunn, a board member of the Gun Violence Prevention Center of Utah. "The shooter should have retreated. He should never have allowed the situation to escalate to the point where he had to use deadly force. He had no duty to do that."
    Concealed-weapon instructor Clark Aposhian says he always teaches his students to disengage, to "warn and retreat." His classes also role play to-shoot-or-not-to-shoot situations.
    "You don't have to wait until a person pulls out a gun or a knife or chokes you to death. You don't have to wait until they are actually harming you," says Aposhian. "But you can't just say, 'I don't like the look of that guy, I'm going to shoot him.' It has to be somewhere in between. Some people are easily frightened, but that doesn't mean they can pull a gun."
    A lot is at stake at the conclusion of this investigation. Concealed-weapon carriers boast that they are five to seven times less likely than the rest of us to commit crimes. But if Harrison's hair trigger creates a firestorm, lawmakers may face pressure to scale back the state's free-wheeling concealed-weapon permitting program.
    "I want [the shooting] to be justified, because I don't want this to have an air of criminality about it," says Aposhian. "Honestly, I'd love to see the police report and witness statements."
    Salt Lake City police are being circumspect, cautious, careful.
    They will work "closely" with District Attorney Lohra Miller to determine if any charges should be filed against Harrison. Just because he was not arrested doesn't mean this is over.
    "We're trying to be very thorough. If we don't get it right, we don't get a do-over," says police spokesman Jeff Bedard. "We rely a lot on witnesses."
    So my question for the witnesses is: How threatening was that backpack?
    Wow,

    I don't think this article could have been more slanted to the left than it was. Hopefully there was more to the altercation that was reported and it turns out to be a good shoot.

    We'll see.
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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Good grief.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    If there was a gun in that backpack you don't have to pull it out to fire it,guns shoot thru backpacks so if somebody reaches in a backpack and tells me they are going for a gun that backpack becomes very dangerous
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    If there was a gun in that backpack you don't have to pull it out to fire it,guns shoot thru backpacks so if somebody reaches in a backpack and tells me they are going for a gun that backpack becomes very dangerous
    He was actually reaching into his pants/waistband. The author of the article was very good at confusing the issue - she redirected attention to the backpack instead of the actual threat.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Whereas I think the SG may have jumped the gun a little (pun not really intended but just kinda slipped out) I agree that if he truly felt that his life, or the lives of the patrons he was hired to protect, then he is justified in his shooting.

    What this knucklehead reported fails to see is that we aren't only allowed to defend ourselves at home, I am allowed to defend myself wherever myself may be, and as far as I am concerned I take myself wherever I go. Which means I will defend myself no matter where I am, and if I can legally carry somewhere that will be my method of protection. If I can't carry then it will be one of the knives I have on me, and if I can't use those my MontBlanc pen will do nicely wherever I need to stick it.

    The really amaze me, but that amazement is getting less and less and I just expect moronic statements from them.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Based on the tone, I have to assume that the loser writer is the loser dead guy's brother.
    When in doubt, just ask yourself, "What would Theodore Roosevelt do?"

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    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    If there was a gun in that backpack you don't have to pull it out to fire it,guns shoot thru backpacks so if somebody reaches in a backpack and tells me they are going for a gun that backpack becomes very dangerous
    +1! When I was LEO, a guy swung a duffle bag while resisting arrest and hit me in the chest. After the K-9 brought him down, we discovered a gun inside the duffle bag. The perp was then charged with Aggrivated Assault on a Police Officer, a felony in Florida; plus a number of other charges.

    However, the story doesn't indicate the guy was reaching into the backpack, only swinging it.
    Tim
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    Someone should have the writer take a backpack to the head a few times then decide if a backpack is a weapon. Anyone acting crazy and reaches in a pocket / waist area is likely to be held at gun point if not shot.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    What the writer did very well is get everyone to focus on the backpack--not the fact that the bad guy tried to assult the GG with a wepon hidden in his waistband.

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    You have to retreat so the BG can shoot you in the back while you are running away.

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    If you are stupid enough to get into a fight or an argument and then pretend to go for a weapon wether in your pocket or waistband you really are playing with fire. I'm not sure a person should wait to see what you come up with before they draw and fire their weapon. It's a thin line. Don't make it thinner by pretending you have a weapon.
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    She has done several editorials here in Salt Lake against CC and OC. Very anti, but she claims she shots. The guy that was shot is almost being made a hero, by the local press here in Salt Lake. Go figure. But then we are getting a lot of rejects from back east and Cali.
    John Steinbeck: Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

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    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Let's see if I understand this.

    Crazy guy threatens a group of diners with a good bashing. Man tells crazy guy to stop. Crazy guy then threatens to shoot people, and reaches into his backpack exactly the way he would if there was a gun there and he was indeed going to shoot up the place. Good guy then causes crazy guy to be unable to continue with his threatened action. Crazy guy now dead.

    Ok, now I've got it: it was a case of suicide by stupidity.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    Threatening, claiming to have a weapon and then reaching into the backpack? I believe, in Academyspeak, that's called making a "furtive gesture." From that point it should be
    Tim
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    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    The backpack is as relevant to the story as the bum's socks, except that it was part of an apparent assault preceding the shooting. Let's see here...

    A = Ability (he claims to have a gun).
    O = Opportunity (he is reaching in his waistband for the gun he claims to have, thus preparing to use it).
    J = Jeopardy (just committed assault and is now threatening the guard with a deadly weapon).

    Sounds like a good shoot to me.
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