Wow This is scary

Wow This is scary

This is a discussion on Wow This is scary within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; An off-duty detective who shot an armed thug to halt a brutal beating has become the first police officer to run afoul of new NYPD ...

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Thread: Wow This is scary

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Wow This is scary

    An off-duty detective who shot an armed thug to halt a brutal beating has become the first police officer to run afoul of new NYPD rules requiring cops to take Breathalyzer tests after firing their weapons, police sources said.

    The 44-year-old detective from Brooklyn South Narcotics, a 15-year veteran of the force, was placed on modified duty and stripped of his weapon after the shooting at 2 a.m. Sunday, in which the thug opened fire first with a powerful Tec-9 automatic handgun, the sources said.

    Stephon Allston, 22, a Queens man with a rap sheet, fired three shots but missed. The detective fired five times, hitting the suspect in the arm and leg. Allston fled but was later busted and charged with attempted murder.

    Under rules adopted by the NYPD in October 2007 on the recommendation of Police Commissioner Ray Kelly, the detective was forced to take a Breathalyzer test - and failed it narrowly.

    His blood-alcohol level was 0.10. The state limit is 0.08. For a man who weighs 160 pounds, that's six drinks in two hours.

    Veteran officers said it was unlikely the detective would lose his job, but a senior police official said, "The jury is still out on this."

    The rules, adopted after Sean Bell was killed in a hail of 50 police bullets on Nov. 25, 2006, are highly controversial in the department.

    "Years ago, if you didn't take action, the department would accuse you of cowardice," a police source said. "Now they encourage you not to take action."

    A veteran cop agreed: "Anybody who carries their gun off duty is an absolute idiot."

    Mike Paladino, head of the Detectives Endowment Association, said the detective "did a heroic job, despite the results of any breath test."

    So far, a dozen cops and six detectives have undergone Breathalyzer tests after firing their weapons, but the detective in Sunday's shooting is the first to be punished. A breath test is mandatory only if a cop hits someone.

    Sean Sawyer, an off-duty narcotics cop who shot and killed a motorist in a Manhattan road-rage incident last year, disappeared for 19 hours after the shooting. Authorities suspect he did so to avoid a Breathalyzer test.

    Sawyer was cleared by a grand jury last week.

    In the shooting Sunday, the detective was with a seven people, including two off-duty correction officers who were waiting to enter a Queens club, when he saw four men walloping another, police sources said.

    The detective and the others in his party went down the street to stop the beating. When they got there, Allston pulled out a Tec-9, jammed a magazine into it and cocked it, the sources said.

    "I'm a police officer," the detective shouted, ordering Allston to drop his weapon.

    Allston allegedly opened fire, fleeing when he was hit. He was arrested at Franklin Hospital in Valley Stream, LI, along with another suspect.
    I guess if you had a few drinks and somebody shoots at you,you gotta let em shoot you instead of returning fire,On the other hand if your gonna carry responsibly don't drink,The officer apparently hit the suspect he was aiming for,but this goes to show you if you are in the same situation and had been drinking You may end up getting charged by a prosecutor looking to make an example out of you
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array sui-juris's Avatar
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    Why should off duty LE be able to carry while intox? A civilian in Michigan who does this would be stripped of their license..
    " Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master." George Washington

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    If I'm carrying off duty I am forbidden to have alcohol in my system.

    It kind of stinks, because a CCW Permit holder can have alcohol in his or her system and legally carry a weapon where I'm living now. Maybe I'll get a CCW Permit.

    Biker

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array rdoggsilva's Avatar
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    That is why I do not drink while carrying, or driving.
    John Steinbeck: Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

  5. #5
    Member Array BUTCH69's Avatar
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    Yes, you shouldn't carry let alone use your weapon if you've been drinking, However, Let's not let common sense completley slip away from us, That cop is to be commended, it's not like he got drunk and shot up the town!!

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    I fail to see the problem here.
    Do not drink and carry. It's simple.

    The NY police are complaining that they can't drink the equivalent of six alcoholic beverages across a two hour time frame, as related to a 160 lb. male, and carry as well as discharge firearms. The same city that has an absolutely dismal record toward hit percentages in relation to rounds fired. The same department that as per the Sean Bell situation resulted in rounds being fired anywhere and everywhere including not even in the general direction of the condensed space targets.

    One can carry their firearm off duty, and to do so is not unwise.
    What is unwise is carrying ones firearm _and_ mixing that with drinking to excess.

    I bet these police would have no issue with arresting a citizen toward a DUI or DWI while at the controls of a 3 ton motor vehicle, on the basis of a 0.08 or worst 0.10 Breathalyzer assessment.
    Why do they feel they are different or entitled to exclusion from same laws and sensibleness than those that they protect and serve, and arrest.

    Also by the fact that their boss feels there is a problem with alcohol consumption and/or abuse by officers be they on duty or off to the extent that he has made this process a requirement indicates to me that citizens within NYC should be as concerned toward those who are there to protect them as they should be of those there with opposite intent.

    - Janq does not drink and drive, nor drink and handle or carry firearms
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    A breath test is mandatory only if a cop hits someone.
    I think that sums this whole thing up quite well. Absolutely and unbelievably stupid!

    If only he'd missed... he wouldn't be in this predicament.

    ETA: And please don't misconstrue this to support drinking while carrying. That, is dumb. In this particular case the primary issue IMO is that he was returning fire, not initiating it. The big concern with drinking, again IMO, is poor decision making. Returning fire is rarely a poor decision.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  8. #8
    New Member Array dkd83's Avatar
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    Well said, Janq
    'It ain't over 'til the fat barrel sings.'

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I totally realise what everybody is saying,but had he not intervened when somebody is being assaulted,if it was me I would hope he would do something,and number #2 the BG shot at him and he returned fire.I don't drink and carry a firearm and I wouldn't suggest anybody else do it either.Had BG not pulled a gun and shot at him then there wouldn't of been a shooting,also the cop didn't start an altercation due to being inebriated he was trying to stop an attack
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Duk,

    The issue is not with his intervention.

    It is with the LEOs choice and decision to drink at all much less to a point of scoring a 0.10 on a Breathalyzer, prior to being involved in the intervention.

    And this result from an officer who had an adrenalin dump, and thus increased metabolic rate, and no doubt every opportunity afforded to him toward delay in timing post shoot to take the test.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #11
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    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
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    Pure and simple!

    This cop did nothing wrong.

    If I'm at home and a dirtbag breaks in after I've washed down 4-6 beers for the evening, am I to let the BG rape, rob, and steal?

    Beer or no beer, I'll defend my home turf just the same. This cop had every right to return fire, drinking or not...not an issue.

    Now going out drinking while armed? Perhaps some action on that issue was needed.

    Stay armed...be wise and stay sober...stay safe!
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sui-juris View Post
    Why should off duty LE be able to carry while intox? A civilian in Michigan who does this would be stripped of their license..
    hello!! It's New York City and the NYPD. The laws (and the Constitution) do not apply to them.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Duisburg's Avatar
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    with a powerful Tec-9 automatic handgun
    what? that is now considered to be powerful and automatic? same caliber as my Glock 17 9mm and I can get 33 round mags for it...
    I am sworn to protect the Constitution of the U.S.A. from all threats both foreign and domestic.

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    Member Array whyipackmy45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    If I'm at home and a dirtbag breaks in after I've washed down 4-6 beers for the evening, am I to let the BG rape, rob, and steal?

    Beer or no beer, I'll defend my home turf just the same. This cop had every right to return fire, drinking or not...not an issue.
    In Nevada, the .08 limit does not apply in your own home. You can be completely hammered and defend your home. However, being drunk won't help you any when his scumbag family sues you.




    (BTW, some people on this board have argued that the NV limit is still .10 but my research turned up .08)
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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Ret,

    The cop was not at home.
    He was out on the streets.

    In the shooting Sunday, the detective was with a seven people, including two off-duty correction officers who were waiting to enter a Queens club, when he saw four men walloping another, police sources said.

    The detective and the others in his party went down the street to stop the beating. When they got there, Allston pulled out a Tec-9, jammed a magazine into it and cocked it, the sources said.
    Of course such a happening in ones home or ones property would be okay, but that was not the case here.
    He was out on the streets for the night carrying while off duty and as based on Breathalyzer results was intoxicated at that.
    It's not about his actions after the fact but his choices and decision making before.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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