Please read and discuss.... 2 similar shootings, only one ends in charges

This is a discussion on Please read and discuss.... 2 similar shootings, only one ends in charges within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Please read the following if you will and post your opinions. Very similar situations, but only the Marine is charged w/ ABWIK. Marine LCpl. Patrick ...

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Thread: Please read and discuss.... 2 similar shootings, only one ends in charges

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    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    Please read and discuss.... 2 similar shootings, only one ends in charges

    Please read the following if you will and post your opinions. Very similar situations, but only the Marine is charged w/ ABWIK.




    Marine LCpl. Patrick King Was Arrested For Shooting Another Marine In The Head | beaufortgazette.com
    Sean
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    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    Interesting :-). I think both should have been charged. However, these brief excerpts unlikely tell the full story:

    - The Marine can be presumed to be more aware of the danger of handling a firearm then a 17 old do-no-good.
    - The kid is probably already getting charged for steeling the handgun and other stuff. Shooting a fellow bad-kid probably didn't make enough of a difference to warrant prosecution?

    just some ideas. Sometimes it all depends on the attitude of the prosecutor.
    I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. (Thomas Jefferson)

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    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Well, of course, the main difference is that one was a trained soldier, who should have known better, and the other was a juvinile idiot.

    In theory, if the cause and effect are the same in both cases, then the penalties should be similar, but these are not the same. The perpertrators are quite different.

    I'm not suggesting that either result is right or wrong, it's just that I don't think we are comparing "apples to apples".
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    I was afraid someone wouldn't click the links, so here are the 2 stories.

    Marine accidentally shoots friend at party, police say
    Published Sat, Aug 16, 2008 3:20 PM
    By MEGHANN ACKERMAN
    mackerman@beaufortgazette.com
    843-986-5537

    A young Marine, thinking his gun was not loaded, allegedly shot his friend, also a Marine, early Saturday
    The Beaufort County Sheriff�s Office is investigating the shooting, which occurred at party at a Polk Village residence.

    Around 1 a.m. Saturday sheriff�s deputies were called to 2809 Second St. for a report of a gunshot victim. According to party-goers, just prior to the shooting, Marine Lance Cpl. Patrick King, 21, had been playing with a handgun that he�d brought with him to the party.

    King allegedly did not know the gun was loaded and pointed the gun at a friend and pulled the trigger. Witnesses reported that there had been no argument between King and his friend, also a 21-year-old Marine, and that the shooting was not intentional.

    The injured man was taken to Beaufort Memorial Hospital, then transported to Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston.

    King was arrested and charged with assault and battery with intent to kill. The investigation is ongoing. Anyone with further information is asked to contact Investigator Cpl. J. Kelleher at 843-470-3217.

    -------------------------------------------------

    ]
    Local teen killed in 'accidental' shooting
    Published Mon, Aug 11, 2008 12:00 AM
    By PATRICK DONOHUE
    pdonohue@beaufortgazette.com
    843-986-5531

    A Burton teenager became the area's second gun-related fatality in a week when a stolen handgun he and his friends were playing with accidentally fired, killing him, according to authorities.

    Rasheem Ray, 17, of Poppy Hill Road was pronounced dead of a single gunshot wound to the head at Beaufort Memorial Hospital on Sunday night.

    Beaufort County Sheriff's Office investigators say Ray and three friends, Dwayne Quincy Smalls, 17; Darryl Robert Kinloch, 17; and Donnell William Matthews, 17; were at Matthews' home on Shanklin Road in Burton, playing with a 9 mm handgun, when Kinloch accidentally pulled the trigger. The stray round struck Ray in the head, according to authorities

    The three friends then loaded Ray into Matthews' car and drove him to Beaufort Memorial Hospital, where they crashed into the brick wall as they pulled into the ambulance bay, the Sheriff's Office said.

    Once Ray was on a stretcher, the three men panicked and left the scene but not before hospital staff got the number of the vehicle's license plate, which they relayed to authorities.

    After running a check on the vehicle's license plate, deputies arrived at Matthews' home on Shanklin Road to find a bloody scene and began interviewing witnesses, according to the Sheriff's Office.

    Meanwhile, Matthews, Kinloch, and Smalls drove to Mossy Oaks Village Apartments on Johnny Morrall Circle where they dumped the car and loaded into another car belonging to a family member, the Sheriff's Office said. From there, they went to Matthews' house to retrieve the handgun, which they had left behind. The three men were no longer at the house when deputies arrived, the Sheriff's Office said.

    Urged by concerned family members, Kinloch, Matthews and Smalls agreed to meet with investigators at the hospital, where they told authorities what happened in the moments before and after Ray's death. They also surrendered the handgun which, after being run through a National Criminal Index Center database, was found to have been reported stolen in Sumter.

    Investigators consider the shooting to be accidental, but the case is active, the Sheriff's Office said.

    Family members told deputies that the boys were close friends and that there hadn't been any recent confrontations among them.
    Sean
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    "King was arrested and charged with assault and battery with intent to kill."

    Notwithstanding the witness claims that they were "playing," there would appear to be some reason the police believe that there was "intent to kill."

    Apparently, not in the other case.

    And of course, difference in age and training. We have to think that the marine had some firearms training and should definitely have known better.

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    Member Array NKMG19's Avatar
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    If I'm around people there are only two occasions when my gun would leave it's holster. The first one is to defend myself from grave bodily harm. The second would be if I'm among very close friends and would include me removing my gun from the holster, removing the magazine and removing the round in the chamber before I show it. At no time would I point it at anyone much less squeezing the trigger. I don't understand these accidental shootings.
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    Once again, we have that notion of "accidental" discharge. The firearm does discharge itself, someone is responsible for pulling the trigger. "Negligent Discharge", yes, "accidental", I don't think so.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
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    I suspect there are useful facts the news accounts are not covering.

    I was just this week on a jury involving assault/self-defense claims, and the newspaper accounts of the trial, the charges, and the verdict were, to a first approximation, all wrong.

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    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NKMG19 View Post
    If I'm around people there are only two occasions when my gun would leave it's holster. The first one is to defend myself from grave bodily harm. The second would be if I'm among very close friends and would include me removing my gun from the holster, removing the magazine and removing the round in the chamber before I show it. At no time would I point it at anyone much less squeezing the trigger. I don't understand these accidental shootings.
    +1 Very well said, and I agree. If only everyone would practice that behaviour. One can dream...
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Possession of a stolen handgun I would think would be one for starters...maybe they are going after the seller.

    As for the Marine...another "look at me, I'm bad man"...an ego that killed his fellow Marine and he gets to practice in prison.

    Rick
    Last edited by Scott; August 19th, 2008 at 09:40 PM. Reason: profanity workaround

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    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NKMG19 View Post
    The second would be if I'm among very close friends and would include me removing my gun from the holster, removing the magazine and removing the round in the chamber before I show it.
    My question is how do you insure the chamber is clear...that is the part that I suspect some do not clear the weapon. I also never ever show or hand a weapon to someone unless the slide is locked open.

    Rick

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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    My question is how do you insure the chamber is clear...that is the part that I suspect some do not clear the weapon. I also never ever show or hand a weapon to someone unless the slide is locked open.

    Rick
    Me too.

    And, I have from time to time been put off by people who want to show me a weapon, bring it out with magazine in place and chamber closed; then sweep me as they hand it to me to get a look see at their device.

    There is no excuse for not being polite and safe, dropping the mag and racking the slide open.

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    Distinguished Member Array XD 45's Avatar
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    possesion of a stolen firearm for starters, firing a firearm into a dwelling
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    First - in the case of the Marine - what's his friend's side of the story - he ain't dead yet. How much training did the Marine actually have? - maybe a couple of weeks of training, maybe more; don't know. If he wasn't in a war zone, much more time is spent carrying an unloaded weapon with no thought to muzzle control during boot, etc.

    The other guy - stolen gun, fleeing from the hospital, attempting to evade police (dumped/exchanged the bloody car). If he and/or friends stole the gun, they're also probably guilty of B&E, (armed) burglary, possession of stolen property. What else have they done with the stolen gun that we're not hearing about. Sounds like good, upstanding young men. Yeah, right. His friend can't speak as to what happened. His buddies were there too - have to cover his but to cover theirs. Lock his butt up.

    As an aside, people who carry who come to the shooting range (supposedly better trained than the average shooter) where I work are notoriously bad about muzzle control. I guess constant handling can result in overconfidence and careless behavior.

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    Senior Member Array XD in SC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD 45 View Post
    possesion of a stolen firearm for starters, firing a firearm into a dwelling
    This guy was NOT charged with anything, however the Marine, who legally owned his weapon, although was illegally carrying, was charged for doing the exact same thing.

    Both of them placed the muzzle of a weapon in the direction of another human's head and pulled the trigger. BOTH of them assumed the weapon was unloaded.

    Why is the Marine being charged? He stayed at the scene, told the story, and took responsibility.

    The other punk fled, removed the weapon form the scene, and continued to hide until he knew he was caught.
    Sean
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