Neighbor-lady almost robbed at Wal-Mart

This is a discussion on Neighbor-lady almost robbed at Wal-Mart within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; No link......not big enough to make the news........ Got off of work Friday, ran a few errands, and started some yardwork when my neighbor, a ...

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Thread: Neighbor-lady almost robbed at Wal-Mart

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Neighbor-lady almost robbed at Wal-Mart

    No link......not big enough to make the news........

    Got off of work Friday, ran a few errands, and started some yardwork when my neighbor, a single mother of one, got home from work. I noticed her 'fat' bottom lip and asked her what happened. Well, last Wed. about two in the afternoon she parked her car at our local Wally-World, grabbed a shopping cart, and started walking to the entrance when she 'noticed' a guy coming up behind her, also with a cart. She described this individual as a clean-cut, slender black male, mid thirties,......not not well-dressed but certinly not 'grubby' or 'gangsta' either......nothing about him made her feel threatened. They both reached the the "road" that runs in front of the entrance/exits and when she turned her head to look for cars, he hit her in the face with his palm, splitting her lower lip/chin and putting her on the ground dazed. BG then grabs her purse (a mini canvas duffel bag) that's around her sholder AND neck, dragging her while trying to remove her purse...punching and kicking her the whole time.
    Broad daylight, plenty of people/witnesses around.....very blantent.
    (....and no, nobody came to her aid during the struggle)
    After several seconds of struggling for the purse, BG lets go and leaves in a late model Ford. Police arrive, take statements, say they're going to review any tapes of the attack, and unless they can get a plate number or recognize the attacker, they said it'll be hard to track him down.

    My neighbor does have a gun and a permit, but she dosn't carry it at all......too many places she has to go where guns are not allowed is her reasoning. "Besides, I only have it for home protection". She's a former Army MP and knows her way around defensive tactics, but this caught her completly off guard and has her second-guessing herself.

    I think she'll be getting my cross-draw holster from me for her sidearm until I can get her to comit to a holster that'll conceal her gun and she'll wear......and a 'lock-box' for her car. She got lucky this time I think. It could've turned out much worse.

    Think my neighbor-lady will also get an invite to the range with me too. That maybe the perfect excuse to get my wife to the range too ........ seeing how I can't get her to go with me any other time. I wish it didn't take a bad experience to 'open' some peoples eyes that 'stuff' can happen anywhere, anytime.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    It coulda been a lot worse,but I'm not surprised at people not jumping in to help they got families and he might have a gun we've seen a few recent reports where good samaritans have been shot intervening.
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    Member Array Dolvio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    It coulda been a lot worse,but I'm not surprised at people not jumping in to help they got families and he might have a gun we've seen a few recent reports where good samaritans have been shot intervening.

    Most people will stand their dumbfounded and watch. It is only after one person steps up to help that the others will then pile on. Do not expect help if you are attacked...it's probably not coming.

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    Yup, an eye opening experiance for sure. I'm glad she wasnt hurt any more than a fat lip.

    Slightly off topic, but see why I despise purse carry?
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    Member Array HKP30's Avatar
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    The Sheeple who watched but didn't help don't surprise me at all.

    This story is one of the reasons I'm amused when I hear from "Life Long Shooters.... I was in the Army..... Foo.... Bar.... and Baz...." from people who don't want to invest in good training.

    Knowing some hand to hand combat is good. But until you've been hit in the face a few times. Almost alll of that hand to hand combat training is worthless.
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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    What happened was wrong. Now I will start the part where people will chew me a new one.

    In general, you need to fear for your life or family member to justify SD. Things get tricky when non-LE puts themselves in harms way (and that is just the legal issue). As bad as it sounds, reacting to protect is not always the right action.

    I was in a situation when I was younger (see other posts if the details matter, but it was a guy hitting his wife / gf). I reacted, and feel I did the right thing, but I'm not sure I would try and stop the BG in your old lady situation (if it happened fast). This is even more true since I am CC armed.

    I'm not 100% sure what I would do if I watched that happen. I know the cell phone would be opened. Call 911, take pics, yell, etc. I have never been certain what I would do beyond that, as I'm not sure how my actions might make the situation worse.

    Would someone think I was another BG, would the BG up the situation, would I be risking my life for anything that would alter the outcome.

    I know it sounds bad, but if it was not a family member, it would be on my mind.

    I would be fast to get LE, fast to come to her aid, but I'm not sure I would fend off the guy or pull my gun.

    As far as the woman being armed, not sure, given the situation, the firearm would have made a difference. This type of BG SD situation is not a good one to be in.

    I feel bad for what I just wrote, but I'm being honest. I may be way off, but sometimes, bad s*** happens.

  8. #7
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    First of all, if one has to wonder or think about what they are gonna do in a situation like that when it is happening, they probably aren't going to help.

    If I were a betting man, I would bet that NO ONE would help for all of the reasons either stated here, or the ones that will be stated later on.

    A situation like this lasts only seconds. Calling 911 will do no good whatsoever except perhaps the ease the conscience of those that are too scared to act. Then they can say they did something and feel good about it.

    I personally ain't putting up with that crap. If I see some punk trying to grab a purse I will do everything with in my power to stop it,because if I don't, it will happen again and it may happen to someone I love. In a case like this that is pretty cut and dried,its a no brainer. Bad guy wresting on the ground with a woman trying to steal her purse. It doesn't get much simpler than that.

    Sure, you could be hurt or even killed. I have never been one to let the fear of what might happen prevent me from helping anyone.
    I don't believe that any thing happens by accident. I believe that if I witness something like that, that I am there for a reason.

    The Bible says to treat your brother as you would treat yourself. I would certainly hope that if it were my wife being rousted by a punk, that someone there would man up and help here in my absence.

    I guess I'm just old fashioned that way.
    Last edited by HotGuns; September 2nd, 2008 at 02:50 PM.
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    Member Array Fixintu's Avatar
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    he hit her in the face with his palm, splitting her lower lip/chin and putting her on the ground dazed. BG then grabs her purse (a mini canvas duffel bag) that's around her sholder AND neck, dragging her while trying to remove her purse...punching and kicking her the whole time.
    IMHO this woman would have been absolutely justified in shooting this BG to stop him as would a CCW bystander drawing his weapon to intervene. Her life is in danger here (a kick to the head). I'm glad the worst she got was a bruising. It could have turned out much worse. I'm also glad this has her rethinking her excuses NOT to carry. But please, NOT in the purse Wishing and hoping for a bystander to intervene in this situation is about as reassuring as waiting for the police to show up and help.
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  10. #9
    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    What happened was wrong. Now I will start the part where people will chew me a new one.

    In general, you need to fear for your life or family member to justify SD. Things get tricky when non-LE puts themselves in harms way (and that is just the legal issue). As bad as it sounds, reacting to protect is not always the right action.

    I was in a situation when I was younger (see other posts if the details matter, but it was a guy hitting his wife / gf). I reacted, and feel I did the right thing, but I'm not sure I would try and stop the BG in your old lady situation (if it happened fast). This is even more true since I am CC armed.

    I'm not 100% sure what I would do if I watched that happen. I know the cell phone would be opened. Call 911, take pics, yell, etc. I have never been certain what I would do beyond that, as I'm not sure how my actions might make the situation worse.

    Would someone think I was another BG, would the BG up the situation, would I be risking my life for anything that would alter the outcome.

    I know it sounds bad, but if it was not a family member, it would be on my mind.

    I would be fast to get LE, fast to come to her aid, but I'm not sure I would fend off the guy or pull my gun.

    As far as the woman being armed, not sure, given the situation, the firearm would have made a difference. This type of BG SD situation is not a good one to be in.

    I feel bad for what I just wrote, but I'm being honest. I may be way off, but sometimes, bad s*** happens.
    I'm thinking if the woman HAD been armed and was able to get to her gun, if she shot the POS she would have been good to go. What you are saying makes a lot of sense if the victim was a man, one on one; but it is a lot easier for a woman to argue she feared for her life in this one. I wish more women would carry; they have the potential to do some serious clean up (of criminal vermin).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    What happened was wrong. Now I will start the part where people will chew me a new one.

    In general, you need to fear for your life or family member to justify SD. Things get tricky when non-LE puts themselves in harms way (and that is just the legal issue). As bad as it sounds, reacting to protect is not always the right action.

    I was in a situation when I was younger (see other posts if the details matter, but it was a guy hitting his wife / gf). I reacted, and feel I did the right thing, but I'm not sure I would try and stop the BG in your old lady situation (if it happened fast). This is even more true since I am CC armed.

    I'm not 100% sure what I would do if I watched that happen. I know the cell phone would be opened. Call 911, take pics, yell, etc. I have never been certain what I would do beyond that, as I'm not sure how my actions might make the situation worse.

    Would someone think I was another BG, would the BG up the situation, would I be risking my life for anything that would alter the outcome.

    I know it sounds bad, but if it was not a family member, it would be on my mind.

    I would be fast to get LE, fast to come to her aid, but I'm not sure I would fend off the guy or pull my gun.

    As far as the woman being armed, not sure, given the situation, the firearm would have made a difference. This type of BG SD situation is not a good one to be in.

    I feel bad for what I just wrote, but I'm being honest. I may be way off, but sometimes, bad s*** happens.
    Hi Thanis, I'm not going to cast stones your way. What I will say is the law of the land varies from place to place, in terms of what is acceptable, when you can/should get involved, etc. Personally, I don't know this person, I'm planning to be a good witness.

    Now, having said that, with respect to the female victim, I feel the disparity of force between a fit man and most women is so great that it does constitute a lethal threat when a violent act is initiated against the female. Given that the female was already on the ground and the perp kicking away - well, seems clear cut to me. Even an errant (accidental) kick to her head could easily turn her into a vegetable or corpse in short order. She would have been justified in my eyes, for what little worth that may be.

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    A gun would have been too difficult to deploy and employ safely. Being dazed and on the ground she would have little view toward her background.
    But...If she'd had a blade of some sort be it a folder or a small KaBar TDI type fixed blade she could have much better and efficiently defended herself. At the very least cut herself free from the purse strap around her neck and from there regroup as necessary.
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    Member Array vernonator's Avatar
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    So, as several have said with the disparity of force she would most likely be justified using deadly force. Would a bystander (you or me) be justified? I know this is dependent on the location but as a rule if the victim is justified do you feel a bystander is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vernonator View Post
    So, as several have said with the disparity of force she would most likely be justified using deadly force. Would a bystander (you or me) be justified? I know this is dependent on the location but as a rule if the victim is justified do you feel a bystander is?

    That is entirely governed by state law. What flys in one state may not fly in another.

    Here in Arkansas defense of a third person is a legally justified shoot,if you feel and can articulate that their life was in danger.
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    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
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    Just to clarify, if the woman had a gun, no issue, she would be in her right to shot (morally, and in the vast number of jurisdictions she would have also been within the law to shoot).

    Considering the picture as I see it. In slow motion but in reality happened in seconds, BG from behind, weak(er) old woman surprised and getting beat on. Horrible! But for the record, I don't know if an armed woman would have mattered.

    I'm not in LE, but I deal with people on a weekly basis, who are victims of violent crimes. I do not hold them accountable or those around them for what happened. S*** happens.

    The only reason I would react if it was family over a stranger is because I know the actions I can live with (if the situation goes bad). I would be more focused on getting the details (like a license #, model, etc.) then putting some punk down. As far as Bible lessons, honor, etc. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    Like when wild animals attack, sometimes you can only help with the aftermath. I'm not calling the BG an animal, that simplifies the situation far to much. The BG is very human, more like all to human.

    A gun is not the solution to every terrible crime. I was not there, I can't be sure. To many action heroes and not enough common sense.

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    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    I hate to say I'm not shocked that no one did anything.
    There's NO way I could stand by if...IF IF IF I watched the entire thing transpire.
    I would have at least yelled at the scum to draw his attention. What he did once his attention was on me...that's on him. If he ran, give a description. If he wanted to come at me...so be it. HIS choice, not mine. It'll play out either way.

    I'll call the BG an animal, scum, SOB, worthless piece of trash, waste of space on the planet, etc..etc. I have NO tolerance for scum that prey on innocent people trying to live their life in peace
    "If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."

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