Psycho hammers subway passenger

This is a discussion on Psycho hammers subway passenger within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; You wouldn't have to worry about hitting any innocents. From the video they scattered in less than a second....

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Thread: Psycho hammers subway passenger

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    You wouldn't have to worry about hitting any innocents. From the video they scattered in less than a second.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piglet View Post
    Stories like this make me ill.

    No offense to you, ExSoldier, but part of me wishes people wouldn't post news coverage of these events. There doesn't seem to be any point besides gratuitously immersing ourselves in an endless stream of discouraging news.

    But, on the other hand, I do admit the importance of not losing sight of the fact that these horrible things are happening every day in our society. I just wish that their reality and heinousness could be brought forcefully to the attention of those people who claim not to see the need to be armed and vigilant.
    Piglet,

    I have a different POV. When the threads have run about panhandlers, and how that is often someone sizing up a victim,
    it helped me be more on guard when it looked like it might happen to me.

    Yes, the video and the act is disturbing. It also can be a type of training for us who don't have the benefit of these types of 'scenarios' from another source.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  4. #18
    Ex Member Array edSky's Avatar
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    Thanks for the post, exSoldier. The first thing it reminded me of was Kitty Genovese in New York, a story that really puzzled me when as a youngster I first heard it. Why would people stand by?

    I think that question and the answers the folks standing by might give could lead us to conclude that stopping that man with force (a weapon) would be justifiable. Why might I not do anything? Because I felt he was capable of killing me after he was through with his first victim? Because I felt if I confronted him I would be overpowered and enrage him more?

    If that is the case, then clearly I would feel my life was in danger and I would react accordingly. I - any of the people trapped on that train - could become the next victim.

    Could I run? Yes, but if I feel that for some reason I was going to be next, then wouldn't I be within my rights to defend myself and the current victim? What do the lawyers and LEOs think?

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    Yes, the video and the act is disturbing. It also can be a type of training for us who don't have the benefit of these types of 'scenarios' from another source.
    Yup. Uncomfortable as it may be, at times, it's why we post, here: to learn from different situations, different ways in which other folks handle things, different points of view. If simply coughed up as another blood-at-6pm type news story, it's worthless. But, if presented as an example of how (or how not) to handle something, then its value can be high for the discussion it brings. Each scenario is different.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  6. #20
    Ex Member Array edSky's Avatar
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    Damn. I read one of the follow up stories SEPTA hammer attack suspect has lengthy criminal record | Philadelphia Inquirer | 09/10/2008 and one comment stood out that made me think. It was criticism of the people who did nothing, and a warning that if it were one of them, maybe no one would come to their rescue. This brought back a repressed memory of mine.

    Back in the 80's when I was younger and dumber, I had a 6'3" neighbor who never worked, would always bicycle and lift weights in the courtyard of our garden apartment complex. This guy, who was taller and more athletic than I, picked me as his victim. One morning on the way to work he attacked me and while I tried to defend myself as best as possible, he got me in a bear hug and got me on the ground and then proceeded to kick me in the head, repeatedly. I saw someone on the sidewalk who was responding to my call for help, but he just stood there. I remember saying "get this guy off of me, he's gonna kill me", to which the jerk replied that we were both fighting and that was just wrong. Thanks, pal. Someone else did come by and pulled the guy off me.

    Now in Middlesex County New Jersey, if someone attacks you and you fight back, you are both charged with a misdemeanor. I had to get a lawyer to defend myself for defending myself, and she dug up some priors on the attacker, where he had a similar pattern of fighting with neighbors going back years. My lawyer also told me he "did something bad" but she didn't know the details. But she did set my mind at ease by telling me not to worry about this guy. She said "Don't worry, some day he'll get in a car accident with someone and pull out a gun and shoot them." How prophetic.

    Around two years later I got a call that my neighbor friend had shot two people in a park. They parked their car next to him and he didn't like the way they looked at him, and there were words exchanged. They went into the park to celebrate the 70th birthday of Mr. Hedgpeth. When a few of the family returned to the car they noticed all four tires slashed and my neighbor, still there. Words were exchanged, my neighbor shot Mr. Hedgpeth, and then shot his 32 year old son. Killing both, in front of their entire extended family.

    The two murders have nothing to do with my being attacked, but when I was on the ground asking for help I was ignored until one person had the presence of mind to step in. I owe him my life, because I don't think I could have survived too many more steel-toed boot-kicks to the head.

    It is also amazing how these things can be buried in your mind for years, healed over, I guess. It did impact me for the longest time, but had nothing to do with me becoming an armed citizen. That's more a factor of my age and where I live.

    Again, thanks for bringing this to light, exSoldier

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
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    On the subject of no one trying to help - of course I'd guess because of their laws on guns that no one there was armed and felt in danger themselves - unable to defend themselves either.

    Now - If it were like the gun friendly CCW states & cities I'd guess if someone there had been armed with their CC - that it might have had a very different ending to that story.

    Of course I'm assuming Philadelphia isn't very gun friendly for CC - am I right?
    For God, Family and Country!

  8. #22
    Member Array whyipackmy45's Avatar
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    Just goes to show that you should never let your guard down.
    That's right, this sweet baby was made in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Retails for about a hundred and nine, ninety five. It's got a walnut stock, cobalt blue steel, and a hair trigger. That's right. Shop smart. Shop S-Mart. You got that?

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  9. #23
    Member Array ImaShepardRU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    I post these kinds of stories (nauseating as they may be) to illustrate a couple of things. FIRST, it can happen anywhere, anytime and without a smidgen of warning! SECOND, you cannot count on any help from the sheep. The best you can do is .... the best you can do!

    One would hope that the attacks on September 11th 2001 would have put the sheep on notice that they MUST take action, but apparently not. It's important that we sheepdogs to remember this fact.
    +1
    This is the law;
    The purpose of fighting is to win.
    There is no possible victory in defense.
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    The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental. - John Steinbeck

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array TheShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whyipackmy45 View Post
    Just goes to show that you should never let your guard down.
    Exactly!

    condition white + hip hop = headache

    actually...

    hip hop - condition white = headache for me
    “Put your pain in a box. Lock it down. No man is stronger than one who can harness his emotions.” -Act of Valor

  11. #25
    Member Array ImaShepardRU's Avatar
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    I love this site! I wish I had found it sooner. I tune in every day I can.
    Read alot, post a little.
    It does really keep you thinking about what could happen.
    I can tell you I always try to sit where I can see anyone who is approaching. I hope it will give me a little extra time to react.
    It aint iron clad, but it is better than being a sheep.
    Not to hi-jack the thread, but.....real life example;
    I have ridden the 'el' in Chicago a couple times, the subway in Toronto, and I think I've been on the NY subway once, though I can't recall, (unarmed of course!) always try to sit as close to the doors as possible, back to the wall, facing out, watching.
    Had a situation on the El where I felt we were being cased by two guys for a robbery or purse snatching, told my wife quietly, we were getting off at the next stop, put her on my weak side and in front of me as we moved toward the door, made eye contact with the primary threat, and gave him 'the look'. I am not prey!
    We got off unharmed, and got back on the next train.
    Unfortunately, the victim here was zoned out listenin' to his Ipod. Never saw it coming. Conditon white all the way!
    Be careful out there.
    This is the law;
    The purpose of fighting is to win.
    There is no possible victory in defense.
    The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
    The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental. - John Steinbeck

  12. #26
    Member Array kohburn's Avatar
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    these stories always make me a little sick, but for good reason.

    this one in particular seems to parallel the greyhound stabbing in canada that happened a few weeksn back.

    anyone have kids and remember the movie "Ants". (for the sake of using something other than a sheep refference)

    we need more movie that demonstrate how a group can overcome a single larger attacker/bully. Maybe it will start to sink in to the minds of the rest of society. The laws can often make it tricky, but IMO we have a duty to stand up for eachother, not just ourselves.
    "An armed society is a polite society" - Robert A. Heinlein

  13. #27
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    it saddens me that no one helped this boy. what kind of society do we live in where people see their fellow man being maimed and just walk off..?

    this man deserved 2 to the heart.
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

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  14. #28
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyCop View Post
    On the subject of no one trying to help - of course I'd guess because of their laws on guns that no one there was armed and felt in danger themselves - unable to defend themselves either.

    Now - If it were like the gun friendly CCW states & cities I'd guess if someone there had been armed with their CC - that it might have had a very different ending to that story.

    Of course I'm assuming Philadelphia isn't very gun friendly for CC - am I right?
    I'm guessing Philly itself is not CC friendly, they tried to go against state laws in PA to ban CC(?) but were slapped down.
    PA apparently has the highest percentage of CCW holders to the general population of any state. I guess it's unfortunate but I'm willing to bet that even though Philly is the largest city in the state, that it probably has less CCWs than the rural counties of PA.
    So once again, the cities are full of sheep and wolves, no sheepdogs to be found.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

  15. #29
    Member Array Arisin Wind's Avatar
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    Evil walks the Earth.
    Be not far from me, for trouble is near; For there is none to help. psalm22:11

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arisin Wind View Post
    Evil walks the Earth.
    i'd like to a shine a light into that darkness.
    Let's Roll - Todd Beamer

    MOΛΩN ΛABÉ

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