October 23rd, 2008 11:53 AM
UK, Australia, NZ...
After reading some posts by our member from NZ, I have to wonder how the citizens of these countries let themselves get in such a mess over the right of self defense?
After all, the right to defend oneself and family is an UNALIENABLE right given to us by our Creator (whoever you choose to believe that to be).
I originally came come from country that did not have any form of the Bill Of Rights, Magna Carta, etc, so it's not surprising the differences in interpretation of SD. However, the three countries I listed had access and exposure to the beginnings of Human Rights (of self determination and SD).
Bitter and clinging to my guns and my religion.
October 23rd, 2008 12:05 PM
They are afraid of themselves. They don't trust their fellow citizen to exercise their rights in a judicious manner, so they took their rights way. Of course, that meant taking their own rights away as well.
Originally Posted by chuckE
"Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington
October 23rd, 2008 12:41 PM
Videos and Photos of Army Special Ops, Navy SEALs, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard in Action - Shock and Awe - Military.com
This video directly address some of your questions concerning the UK and Australia. I'm pretty sure it's an older NRA video that's been posted here before but certinly timely still.......
Matiki seemed to hit part of it.......the grabbers are afriad of themselves. If you can't trust yourself with a firearm, then there's no way to trust anyone else......except the goverment, they'll take care of 'us'.
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
(Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay
October 23rd, 2008 12:49 PM
I think they just believed that it could never happen - sort of like may happen here. And then when it did happen, it was much too late.
The most exhilarating thing in life is getting shot at with no results.
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October 23rd, 2008 02:24 PM
For starters, while WE here in the US hold that such rights are unalienable, these other nations don't necessarily agree.
Originally Posted by chuckE
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
October 23rd, 2008 05:01 PM
That is part of it, the other is they became so ingrained with "the Govt is here for you, the Govt will take care of you" that when ordered to turn in their firearms they just lined up like lemmings.
Originally Posted by walvord
With the current race here in the US trending badly for pro 2A candidates it is NOT unforseeable that the gun grabbers will attempt to do the same here. How that plays out could be very violent.
December 13th, 2008 11:58 PM
A friend just sent me this. If it is posted somewhere else, please move.
G503.com Message Forums :: View topic - Australian Gun Law Update
December 14th, 2008 12:23 AM
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
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NRA Life Member[/B]
December 14th, 2008 01:24 AM
Originally Posted by matiki
Man if I had a dollar for how many times folks IRL and virtual (online) have stated this exact comment.
They do not trust themselves to be entrusted with ability to handle a firearm. And as such they do not trust that anyone else can do so either thinking that everyone else is a moron or nervous Nelly or jumpy Jim or fraidy cat Freddy like them.
Matiki you have hit the nail square.
The rest of the reasons people tend to promote almost always revolves around inability to trust ones self to not act like a fool and by that inability to trust others too, if they are not wearing some sort of uniform or badge.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
December 14th, 2008 12:20 PM
There is also something else at play. A weak point in parliamentary systems is that the majority government can do just about anything it likes; with little debate outside the inner circle of major ministers. There are no checks, and the judiciary doesn't have a written Constitution to use as a standard.
The big advantage of the parliamentary system is it can get stuff done. The big disadvantage is that there are no brakes on what the government elects to do beyond holding new elections.
Still, their system is very democratic with multitudes of minor parties--though this also has the downside that sometimes the minor parties manage to actually control agendas.
There is no such things as perfect in this world. Our system is far from it, and so are parliamentary systems.
I do know my Aussie relatives would like more self defense rights. As it is, one said you can't even punch an intruder.
Last edited by Hopyard; December 14th, 2008 at 04:16 PM.
December 14th, 2008 07:46 PM
Also, keep in mind that our American values are quite different. We value self-reliance and independence, with roots from the old pioneering days and the violent, guerilla insurgency that was the Revolutionary War.
These other countries have had monarchs, popes, and other types of figurehead rulers for centuries. It's a different way of thinking, I suppose. At any rate, I like my American mentality just fine. Others might not, however. Some people view our mentality as something outdated.
Sort of like "should we go back to beating bugs with rocks and wearing animal skins as well, rather than buying food and clothing from a store?" type of thing. I guess I could kind of understand it, but honestly, it is an unrealistic mindset found with inhabitants of countries where life is relatively comfortable. It's all too easy to insulate one's self from the real world in the comfort of their middle-class home in their developed or developing country.
December 15th, 2008 06:18 PM
Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.
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