UK, Australia, NZ...

UK, Australia, NZ...

This is a discussion on UK, Australia, NZ... within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; After reading some posts by our member from NZ, I have to wonder how the citizens of these countries let themselves get in such a ...

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Thread: UK, Australia, NZ...

  1. #1
    Member Array chuckE's Avatar
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    UK, Australia, NZ...

    After reading some posts by our member from NZ, I have to wonder how the citizens of these countries let themselves get in such a mess over the right of self defense?

    After all, the right to defend oneself and family is an UNALIENABLE right given to us by our Creator (whoever you choose to believe that to be).

    I originally came come from country that did not have any form of the Bill Of Rights, Magna Carta, etc, so it's not surprising the differences in interpretation of SD. However, the three countries I listed had access and exposure to the beginnings of Human Rights (of self determination and SD).

    WTH happened???
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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckE View Post
    ....

    WTH happened???
    They are afraid of themselves. They don't trust their fellow citizen to exercise their rights in a judicious manner, so they took their rights way. Of course, that meant taking their own rights away as well.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Videos and Photos of Army Special Ops, Navy SEALs, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard in Action - Shock and Awe - Military.com

    This video directly address some of your questions concerning the UK and Australia. I'm pretty sure it's an older NRA video that's been posted here before but certinly timely still.......

    Matiki seemed to hit part of it.......the grabbers are afriad of themselves. If you can't trust yourself with a firearm, then there's no way to trust anyone else......except the goverment, they'll take care of 'us'.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    I think they just believed that it could never happen - sort of like may happen here. And then when it did happen, it was much too late.
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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckE View Post
    After reading some posts by our member from NZ, I have to wonder how the citizens of these countries let themselves get in such a mess over the right of self defense?

    After all, the right to defend oneself and family is an UNALIENABLE right given to us by our Creator (whoever you choose to believe that to be).

    I originally came come from country that did not have any form of the Bill Of Rights, Magna Carta, etc, so it's not surprising the differences in interpretation of SD. However, the three countries I listed had access and exposure to the beginnings of Human Rights (of self determination and SD).

    WTH happened???
    For starters, while WE here in the US hold that such rights are unalienable, these other nations don't necessarily agree.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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    Member Array vernonator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walvord View Post
    I think they just believed that it could never happen - sort of like may happen here. And then when it did happen, it was much too late.
    That is part of it, the other is they became so ingrained with "the Govt is here for you, the Govt will take care of you" that when ordered to turn in their firearms they just lined up like lemmings.

    With the current race here in the US trending badly for pro 2A candidates it is NOT unforseeable that the gun grabbers will attempt to do the same here. How that plays out could be very violent.

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    Australian Crime

    A friend just sent me this. If it is posted somewhere else, please move.
    G503.com Message Forums :: View topic - Australian Gun Law Update

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    Quote Originally Posted by vernonator View Post
    That is part of it, the other is they became so ingrained with "the Govt is here for you, the Govt will take care of you" that when ordered to turn in their firearms they just lined up like lemmings.

    With the current race here in the US trending badly for pro 2A candidates it is NOT unforseeable that the gun grabbers will attempt to do the same here. How that plays out could be very violent.




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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    They are afraid of themselves. They don't trust their fellow citizen to exercise their rights in a judicious manner, so they took their rights way. Of course, that meant taking their own rights away as well.
    Bingo!

    Man if I had a dollar for how many times folks IRL and virtual (online) have stated this exact comment.
    They do not trust themselves to be entrusted with ability to handle a firearm. And as such they do not trust that anyone else can do so either thinking that everyone else is a moron or nervous Nelly or jumpy Jim or fraidy cat Freddy like them.

    Matiki you have hit the nail square.
    The rest of the reasons people tend to promote almost always revolves around inability to trust ones self to not act like a fool and by that inability to trust others too, if they are not wearing some sort of uniform or badge.

    - Janq
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    There is also something else at play. A weak point in parliamentary systems is that the majority government can do just about anything it likes; with little debate outside the inner circle of major ministers. There are no checks, and the judiciary doesn't have a written Constitution to use as a standard.

    The big advantage of the parliamentary system is it can get stuff done. The big disadvantage is that there are no brakes on what the government elects to do beyond holding new elections.

    Still, their system is very democratic with multitudes of minor parties--though this also has the downside that sometimes the minor parties manage to actually control agendas.

    There is no such things as perfect in this world. Our system is far from it, and so are parliamentary systems.

    I do know my Aussie relatives would like more self defense rights. As it is, one said you can't even punch an intruder.
    Last edited by Hopyard; December 14th, 2008 at 05:16 PM.

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    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    Also, keep in mind that our American values are quite different. We value self-reliance and independence, with roots from the old pioneering days and the violent, guerilla insurgency that was the Revolutionary War.

    These other countries have had monarchs, popes, and other types of figurehead rulers for centuries. It's a different way of thinking, I suppose. At any rate, I like my American mentality just fine. Others might not, however. Some people view our mentality as something outdated.

    Sort of like "should we go back to beating bugs with rocks and wearing animal skins as well, rather than buying food and clothing from a store?" type of thing. I guess I could kind of understand it, but honestly, it is an unrealistic mindset found with inhabitants of countries where life is relatively comfortable. It's all too easy to insulate one's self from the real world in the comfort of their middle-class home in their developed or developing country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckE View Post
    After reading some posts by our member from NZ, I have to wonder how the citizens of these countries let themselves get in such a mess over the right of self defense?

    After all, the right to defend oneself and family is an UNALIENABLE right given to us by our Creator (whoever you choose to believe that to be).

    I originally came come from country that did not have any form of the Bill Of Rights, Magna Carta, etc, so it's not surprising the differences in interpretation of SD. However, the three countries I listed had access and exposure to the beginnings of Human Rights (of self determination and SD).

    WTH happened???
    But the Queen gives our Creator his rights, and so she can take them back whenever she deems it appropriate!
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