GOOD & BAD : 21 year old jailed for defending himself

This is a discussion on GOOD & BAD : 21 year old jailed for defending himself within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; This will be my last post for a while, I should be doing work rather than bitching about our lack or rights here in NZ. ...

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Thread: GOOD & BAD : 21 year old jailed for defending himself

  1. #1
    Member Array heylin's Avatar
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    GOOD & BAD : 21 year old jailed for defending himself

    This will be my last post for a while, I should be doing work rather than bitching about our lack or rights here in NZ. This news article from last year takes the cake.

    BAD:
    Short story, 21 year old trainee chef, no convictions, good citizen knifes 1 of 5 attackers on a bus after being subjected to a punch in the face.

    All the attackers had weapons (but they were not used).

    Attackers not convicted, 21 year old gets 2 years jail, the police even tried to go for attempted murder.

    Full story here
    Plea for 'medal, not prison' over stabbing - New Zealand news on Stuff.co.nz

    GOOD:
    The Judge who made the call got 3 years jail.


    Closing Comments:

    Who can we trust here in New Zealand ?, our police want to prosecute us, our justice system fails us, we are at the mercy of those who attack us.

    I can say now that I feel totally vulnerable and genuinely fear for my life in this country.

    The only government deapartment on our side is the Human Rights Comission, article 3: The right to life.

    If I ever had to defend myself with lethal force I could hopefully call on article 3 to take precedence over any stupid police charges.
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  3. #2
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    The Judge who made the call got 3 years jail.
    Please explain this more. Sorry.
    Richard

    NRA Life Member

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    Member Array txhorns281's Avatar
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    that's terrible, surely even witness testimony ought to mean something...

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    Member Array txhorns281's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Please explain this more. Sorry.
    yes, agreed

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    Sounds like the New Zealanders are some of the few people who could benefit by moving to England...

    Stay armed...Nov 4th, VOTE...stay safe!
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  7. #6
    Member Array heylin's Avatar
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    Quote:
    The Judge who made the call got 3 years jail.

    Please explain this more. Sorry.

    The Judge who handed down the 2 year sentence to the guy defending himself was subsequently stood down and jailed for 3 years for

    1) disproportianate sentence
    2) kidnapping (the sentence given resulted in that person doing jail time)

    basically the sentence given was to harsh and unjustified given the cicumstances of the case, and because this person served some jail time they were effectively being held against their will.

    The sentences handed down by judges need to be proportional to the crime comitted and the circumstances surrounding the case.

    This was complete overkill.

    In any normal case if that person had knifed or assualted someone on the offensive, he may have got 2 years becuase he had no previous convictions, by in this case he was on the defensive, so 2 years was way to harsh and the judge was out of line.
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  8. #7
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heylin View Post
    The Judge who handed down the 2 year sentence to the guy defending himself was subsequently stood down and jailed for 3 years for

    1) disproportianate sentence
    2) kidnapping (the sentence given resulted in that person doing jail time)

    basically the sentence given was to harsh and unjustified given the cicumstances of the case, and because this person served some jail time they were effectively being held against their will.

    The sentences handed down by judges need to be proportional to the crime comitted and the circumstances surrounding the case.

    This was complete overkill.

    In any normal case if that person had knifed or assualted someone on the offensive, he may have got 2 years becuase he had no previous convictions, by in this case he was on the defensive, so 2 years was way to harsh and the judge was out of line.
    Wow.

    Now look, I do not agree with the Judge convicting that guy if it went down as described.

    But you have Judges, that now fear they will be prosecuted for executing their duties? How can Justice possibly be dispensed objectively when Judges have a personal interest in not convicting because they are afraid of being punished?
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  9. #8
    Member Array heylin's Avatar
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    Wow.

    Now look, I do not agree with the Judge convicting that guy if it went down as described.

    But you have Judges, that now fear they will be prosecuted for executing their duties? How can Justice possibly be dispensed objectively when Judges have a personal interest in not convicting because they are afraid of being punished?
    Totally agree its really scary, you get criminals who deserve nothing short of the death penalty who end up getting soft sentences and then go off re-offending.

    Perhaps sentencing needs to be carried out by the jury by vote, ie break the sentence into 3 levels (low, medium and high) and have the jury vote on the most appropriate according to case circumstances.

    Again it would be far easier to allow the right to self defense, you remove all the grey area and have a positive effect in crime reduction due to armed and well defended citizens.

    My proposal to our soon to be new government today via email was

    >>>>>>>>>>My suggestion would be to allow homeowners within the confines of their home (not their land) to be able to use any force necessary to repell a person who has broken in with intent to rape or kill. Obviously we dont want people walking around in public carrying firearms like they do in the USA this isnt what im suggesting, but in your home you should be allowed to defend yourself with any means. This should be a basic human right.

    A change to the crimes act could be

    "Any person who legally owns firearms is entitled to use these in self defence within the physical confines of their home \ place of residence, where there is genuine chance or threat of physical harm to yourself or others and that the use of such force, does not place innocent people at risk"

    Obviously the arms act in regards to safe storage would need to be updated and could be along the lines of.

    "Firearms kept at home for the puposes of self defence when not in storage must be in reach and under the direct control of the licensed owner at all times, and have no rounds chambered at the time with safety on"

    For additional safety the firearms licencing programme could have an additional endorsement added for "Self Defence" this would involve a 1 day safety and learning programme run at local rifle or pistol club. An "S" endorsement would prove that a person had had training in the responsible and safe use of firearms for self defence at home and is aware of the situations that warrent the use of firearms in self defence.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    *note the no round in chamber is required to get said reform past the safety people that would otherwise oppose the rule.

    It would be hard to enforce and therefore is just moot. Im sure homeowners who were serious about defence would simply ignore this. Mind you if an accident occured there woul need to be penalties.
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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    If this is an example of NZ justice, you all are screwed.

    So what's a guy to do when someone breaks into your house and tries to hurt you? You can't depend on the police or trust the judges, so what is left? Hide the bodies?

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    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    You sure post a lot of nasty stories about NZ! I'm taking it off my vacation wannabe list.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  12. #11
    Member Array heylin's Avatar
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    You sure post a lot of nasty stories about NZ! I'm taking it off my vacation wannabe list.
    Trust me when I say NZ is a safe place to live and safe place to holiday, if anything we have alot less crime than most other holiday destinations.

    When I say safe I mean safe as can be, you are always going to get crime anywhere you go in the world, you cant knock NZ off your list just because I post up the 3 or 4 incidents a week we have reported in the news.

    For instance the women that was shot yesterday was the first woman in NZ history shot by police, not many countries can say that. We have little in the way of major incidents we tend to overreport and overplay anything that does happen.

    If youre prepared to leave your guns at home come to NZ if not then happy holidaying in the USA, but believe me you are missing out on an awesome holiday in NZ.
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  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Yoda's Avatar
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    This story confirms my belief that the USA is the best place to live.
    Yoda, I am, yes.

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    trouble in N.Z.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    This story confirms my belief that the USA is the best place to live.

    amen yoda. best darn country in the world.
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    jfl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    This story confirms my belief that the USA is the best place to live.
    That's why so many people are trying to come here !!!
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

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  16. #15
    Member Array txhorns281's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    This story confirms my belief that the USA is the best place to live.
    Was there ever any doubt? This among many things friend...

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