Bad: Resident with gun shot by cop chasing BG

Bad: Resident with gun shot by cop chasing BG

This is a discussion on Bad: Resident with gun shot by cop chasing BG within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; cbs13.com - Stockton Man Killed In Officer-Involved Shooting Apparently, a car chase ends with the driver running into a home's backyard. Cops pursue and apprehend. ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    Bad: Resident with gun shot by cop chasing BG

    cbs13.com - Stockton Man Killed In Officer-Involved Shooting

    Apparently, a car chase ends with the driver running into a home's backyard. Cops pursue and apprehend. The homeowner (or lawful resident) exits his garage with a shotgun. Cop fatally shoots him.

    Brother-in-law states that the newspaper article is incorrect in a few areas, specifically that the police never identified themselves. He is actively pursuing legal representation for a wrongful death suit.

    need wrongfull death attorny asap - Calguns.net


  2. #2
    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    Dec 10, 2008 1:02 pm US/Pacific
    Stockton Man Killed In Officer-Involved Shooting
    STOCKTON, Calif. (CBS13) ― Stockton Police have shot and killed an armed man who walked out of what appears to be his own home just as officers were attempting to arrest two suspects from an earlier chase who had ended up in the man's backyard.

    The shooting happened early this morning after a short chase that began when a 1995 Honda failed to pullover for a traffic stop. The chase began and ended quickly after the suspect car crashed into at least two parked cars in the area of 8th Street and California Street. The car's driver and passenger escaped on foot.

    Officers found the suspects running through backyards in the 2100 block of South Sutter Street. When officers were attempting to take one of the suspects into custody in the backyard of 2130 South Sutter, a man walked out of the home's garage with a gun. That's when an officer shot and killed the man. Stockton police say the officer feared for his own safety and that of other arresting officers.

    Stockton police believe the dead man lived at the home. He is in his 30's and according to police does not have an extensive criminal background. They are continuing their investigation into the shooting.

    Police say the chase suspect taken into custody is a Hispanic juvenile who is listed as a missing person out of Lodi and a documented gang member.

    Police continue to search for the other suspect.

    ( MMVIII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

  3. #3
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    Tragic, and now the juvenile will end up with a murder charge instead of the traffic stuff, running, and trespass.

    Sound like no wrongdoing by cop or homeowner, just bad circumstance and a little stupidity for going outside openly armed. Here's a situation where a concealed handgun could have provided some protection without causing the pursuing cops some confusion.

    Ick. Sad stuff.

  4. #4
    Member Array bigiceman's Avatar
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    We are never going to know the full circumstances of this incident, because one person isn't able to tell their side, and the other, understandably, will not implicate themself.

    I would hope that this incident will reinforce that everyone who carries a firearm needs to make sure to identify their target. I pray for both the family of the dead man and the police officer.
    But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...
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  5. #5
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    Sad situation all around. Will be interesting to follow where this story goes.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Array walvord's Avatar
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    Not enough information. One cannot just walk out of their garage holding a gun in the PRC especially when police are trying to apprehend BG's in the neighborhood. Whether you're in the right or not, it's not a healthy thing to do.
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  7. #7
    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walvord View Post
    Not enough information. One cannot just walk out of their garage holding a gun in the PRC especially when police are trying to apprehend BG's in the neighborhood. Whether you're in the right or not, it's not a healthy thing to do.
    I wouldn't limit this to being a "definitely not healthy" action (if the victim was actually aware that LE was already there), but I have a question:

    If the kid was already in custody (on the ground, handcuffed, etc.) BEFORE the cop shot the homeowner, would the kid still be subject to enhanced charges? My guess is not. I think this is going to be 100% on the Stockton PD and the shooting officer.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array PaulJ's Avatar
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    There was a similar situation here in Jacksonville FL last year. Plain clothes police officers were hiding in a back yard to wait for a drug raid. The home owner sees them, and suspects bad guys trying to (again) rob him. This was one of the known bad areas. The home owner opens fire on the officers, who return fire and kill the homeowner. This is a very tragic situation and it is hard to find fault at either side. In this particular case, the home owner appearently calls cops frequently to report drug activity and the like, but he never saw a response in the past. So he was used to fend for himself. I don't think he called 911 before (would they be able to tell him that these are cops?)
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  9. #9
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    This is a tough call without knowing ALL the facts.
    Why would this individual go outside with a gun in the first place.
    Now even though this is a rare instance, don't we usually talk about hearing noise outside and calling the police instead of heading out to the noise?
    We still make our own choices, and this is a factor to consider before going out to defend the turf.

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    Senior Member Array Paladin132's Avatar
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    If a felony is committed in the discharge of another crime then it could be, but I'm with Rivers I just don't know. That's going to be a tough one. I would say that the police won't charge him with it though.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    Well, this is all 20/20 hindsight, but I think it best to stay indoors and if the crook tries to break in, he's toast, but other than that ...(stay inside)!

    Now if you're already outside when things go sideways -- I guess you have to use your best judgment. Some (perhaps crook) coming at you and wanting to enter your home, to hold hostages or something like that -- well, you can guess but you really don't know. All you know is here comes somebody holding a weapon, ready to point it at you -- if you are going to act you better do so quickly. At that point turning around to run back inside may get you shot in the back.

    It's all something of a crap shoot.
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array P7fanatic's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Here's a situation where a concealed handgun could have provided some protection without causing the pursuing cops some confusion.

    Ick. Sad stuff.
    We're talking about Kalifornia here. Concealed carry is not too common, at least by law abiding citizens.


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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivers View Post
    ...If the kid was already in custody (on the ground, handcuffed, etc.) BEFORE the cop shot the homeowner, would the kid still be subject to enhanced charges? My guess is not. I think this is going to be 100% on the Stockton PD and the shooting officer.
    Agreed Rivers, the criminal is at that point physically in custody and no active crime commission is in play and he is no longer a threat to anyone. It wouldn't be all that difficult to fight such a play in court.

    As to the homeowner this is tragic.
    But it is an excellent example of what I an many of us have been saying for ages. There is little and often times no reason to be stepping foot outside your home to _engage_ perceived threats that are outside and beyond your homes four wall perimeter. if you are already outside, then directly as in right now immediately drop everything and get inside your fort. Do not go running after folks or gettinginto shouting matches. That's a fools play.
    Additionally walking around in public space armed as such even if on your own property can be interpreted as brandishing in many places, at a minimum. Doing so whilst police are on site taking down a criminal, which he may or may not have known/seen them their prior, is even more of a terrible idea.

    Stay your butt inside. Turn on all exterior lights if they are not on already. Dial '911'! Stay inside and arm yourself there. Await cavalry support in the way of black and blue vehicles and clothed policemen showing up on site and at your door as positively identified through the peephole to let you know all is well and secure. And, if the cops are directing you to show yourself or come to them to be talked to/interviewed. DO NOT DISPLAY OR BRING YOUR FIREARM. This should be a no brainer.

    Had dude followed these very simple rules he'd still be alive.
    Very unfortunate for every one involved police to victims family.

    - Janq

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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    At the CalGuns forum someone posted the following...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiba

    Sad indeed.

    I read the story on a news website first thing this morning at work and it was reported as one of the suspects being killed. About an hour later I read Rob's first post... when I returned and re-read the story on the news website it had been revised to state the homeowner had been killed instead. An unfortunate series of events for sure leading to the death of an innocent.

    A recording of the entire event on the police scanner, beginning from the initial traffic stop & chase are here:

    http://doczupload.com/scan-files/12-...ter_street.mp3

    Might want to save that!

    Source - Calguns.net - View Single Post - need wrongfull death attorny asap
    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #15
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    Just a quick comment. This mess is a good example of why relying on AOJ is insufficient. Somehow, "intent" needs to be established. In this particular example, it could not be established without the officers accepting some considerable personal risk; yet, you have to wonder why the shot was fired at the homeowner except that the officers "incorrectly" perceived jeopardy where jeopardy didn't exist because there was no intent.

    Hmm, this isn't such a quick comment, some more. Was it reasonable to assume the homeowner had intent to harm the officers? (I guess in some neighborhoods he might well have had such an intent.) But, the overall circumstance, doesn't suggest that the owner had any such intent and therefore there was no jeopardy.

    From this point of view, the officers might well be in deep doo.

    I wonder if the homeowner had the gun pointed toward the ground or if he dumbly sweeped the arresting officers.

    This one is horrific, and I feel sorry for all involved including the idiots who were running on a minor offense and now are deep into it.

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