Phoenix Police v Heavily Armed Gangs

This is a discussion on Phoenix Police v Heavily Armed Gangs within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; So I was watching FNC and saw where Phoenix police want to purchase their own patrol rifles to combat "heavily armed drug gangs" which "outgun ...

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Thread: Phoenix Police v Heavily Armed Gangs

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    Senior Member Array Paladin132's Avatar
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    Phoenix Police v Heavily Armed Gangs

    So I was watching FNC and saw where Phoenix police want to purchase their own patrol rifles to combat "heavily armed drug gangs" which "outgun them." Sense the statistics say that "Assault weapons" are nearly never used by criminals, in fact mostly they don't want weapons that big, then I am wondering what this is about. Sounds more like the liberal anti constitution masses jumping on a small story to make it big. What say you?

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Paladin,

    Outgunned has very often been a news and police agency euphamism for equally gunned.
    Meaning the BGs at a given time frame have caught up to the cops in the armament that they use in their trade, against each other not police.

    BGs advance from bats, chains, knives, and broken bottles to .38s and the cops (and/or media) cried we are 'outgunned'. So they moved to semi-automatics and high capacity 9mm. With time the BGs began to do same to a point that it became a norm. The cops cried we are outgunned again, roughly two decades later.
    The BGs went to Glock, Tec-9s (a semi-automatic pistol) and other SA arms along with shotguns (sawed off field guns) and semi-automatic rifles (AK, AR, SKS, etc.). to use on each other and law enforcement once more states they are outgunned.

    What is happening in Phoenix is just the latest episode of the latest generation where the cops are finding that the BGs have improved their arms technology locally, again.
    This should not in general be taken to mean that the BGs are running raids n the cops and cop precinct houses with said weapons and that they are left to defend themselves with pop guns and pea shooters. That is not the case even as the mental imagery from their statements do evoke thoughts of the 70s film 'Assault on Precinct 13'. Which BTW was completely fictional in itself and such incidents to occur in modern law enforcement history can be counted on two hands across roughly 100 yrs. time frame.

    Assault on Precinct 13 (1976) - Plot summary

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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    TOF
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    Given the hardware being found in illegal alien drop houses and drug transfer points, I believe the Phoenix PD needs some heavier hardware. Activities emanating from the border have many Arizona residents thinking we all need heavier hardware.
    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    If you lived by the border it's different down here,drug gangs have the money and ability to buy not only semi auto AR15's and AK's but full autos as well,they actually send hit teams into the US and aren't afraid of cops,so when a street cop runs into a paid murderer the guy will not hesitate to shoot then flee back across the border,Also if you got 3 or 4 guys packing hi cap semi autos the cop with a glock and a shotgun is gonna be outgunned.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Not outgunned in such a case of 3 or 4 vs. 1. That is being out numbered or out manned.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Not outgunned in such a case of 3 or 4 vs. 1. That is being out numbered or out manned.

    - Janq
    It would depend on your perspective. If out gunned you mean by caliber then yes he is not out gunned, but if you mean by number of guns then yes he is, 3-4 guns to one. Yes he is outgunned and I am not counting possible bugs.
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    I think I'm with Jang on this one. Outnumbered but not out gunned. I do have a question.

    Jang wrote: "That is not the case even as the mental imagery from their statements do evoke thoughts of the 70s film 'Assault on Precinct 13'. Which BTW was completely fictional in itself and such incidents to occur in modern law enforcement history can be counted on two hands across roughly 100 yrs. time frame."

    Have there ever been ANY armed assaults on a US police station? I'm not asking about the lone deranged guy with a handgun. I'm talking about some sort of a group attack, planned, well armed, well executed, like we see in 3rd world countries or Iraq and Afghanistan?

    I think not. But, there might have been a rare instance I don't recall.

    Similarly, are there or have there been any organized planned ambushes of police officers involving a well armed group such as the one that robbed a bank in CA a few years back--though that wasn't an ambush scenario?

    I'm all for cops being uparmored with good vests, good shotguns and good rifles. Full auto is O.K. with me if we can assure they don't get stolen or lost.

    I don't quite believe that there is organized threat to police even in the border areas, YET. It is coming. What is in Juarez will be in El Paso. What is in Acuna will be in Del Rio.

    Frankly, I think Mexico needs to be warned sternly that if they can not and will not police their side of the border, we will---not just with fences, but land mines, and possibly by occupying a 3-5 mile buffer zone. We can not afford to allow the chaos on the other side to spill over to here.

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    Senior Member Array Paladin132's Avatar
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    I'm fine with them getting the information, its just irritating that it seems that this is yet another bandwagon like in the late 80's and 90's where they wanted to use this for AWB type garbage. I think Mexico should be told to get their house in order or we are going to step in. I mean seriously. Its rediculous in this age that the world's superpower can't secure its southern border either physically or, I don't know what the word is, but in another way.

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecbaatz View Post
    It would depend on your perspective. If out gunned you mean by caliber then yes he is not out gunned, but if you mean by number of guns then yes he is, 3-4 guns to one. Yes he is outgunned and I am not counting possible bugs.
    Same guns...just in the hypothetical there are more persons holding them one one side of the street than the other. More men equals more potential guns.

    Caliber doesn't mean much within the scope of things as they typically are on the streets.
    .22 vs .380 vs. .38 vs. 9mm vs. 40 vs. 45.
    Hits are what makes the largest difference, for cops or the robbers.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Hopyard,

    The last armed assault on a police station that I am aware of occurred just over a mile from where I used to live at a major station (not a sub-station) located in Fairfax, VA;

    Posted: Wednesday, May 17, 2006
    Updated: July 8th, 2008 05:27 PM EDT
    Virginia Station Shooting Claims Second Officer's Life

    These events though are extremely rare. On the order of domestic terrorist bombings rare, only even more rare than that.
    As to officers being purposely with planning attacked that though does happen with some regularity.

    Not the latest but the most brazen to my recent memory was this event;
    updated 8:59 p.m. ET, Wed., Jan. 31, 2007
    Sheriff's wife among 4 dead in shooting - Crime & courts- msnbc.com

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Member Array krab's Avatar
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    I don't care if law enforcement want bazookas. If it will help take out bad guys, give it to them.

    I just hope the cops are careful on collateral damage.

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    Member Array Ship A'Hoy's Avatar
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    The only thing that bothers me is that the Police have to buy these guns themselves.
    "Success is not Final, Failure is not Fatal, it is the Courage to Continue that Counts"
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krab View Post
    I don't care if law enforcement want bazookas. If it will help take out bad guys, give it to them.
    "They got Uzis. They got shotguns. They got explosives. They got access to any weapon they want within 24 hours...We got over 50,000 gangbangers out there." - 'Colors'

    FFWD to 02:30
    YouTube - Colors (1988) part 1

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    I think the PD is looking for a way to spend some money before they have to give it back to the public.
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    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krab View Post
    I don't care if law enforcement want bazookas. If it will help take out bad guys, give it to them.

    I just hope the cops are careful on collateral damage.
    I'm going to have to disagree...If they're actually gangs running the streets with fully automatic weapons then it's time for a troop deployment. We have a National Guard for just such occations. I don't want full autos in the hands of anyone except soldiers...and that includes the police. (and in a place such as New Orleans for example...especially the police.)
    "Any rationally thinking person is armed" ---Hinds Co. constable John Lewis

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