I had to draw my gun in Orlando last week.

This is a discussion on I had to draw my gun in Orlando last week. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; 30 yards away, he's headed for his car, the Possible Bad Guy (PBG) has his hand in his jacket pocket, and the Good Guy should ...

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Thread: I had to draw my gun in Orlando last week.

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    30 yards away, he's headed for his car, the Possible Bad Guy (PBG) has his hand in his jacket pocket, and the Good Guy should retreat with his wife and kid in tow to the restaurant? If the PBG has a gun, that's way too close to turn your back and try to retreat. If he has a knife, do you think he could catch the slowest person of the GG's family in that 30 yards? Plus you would be facing away from the possible threat!

    I know martial arts. I don't start fights, I try to avoid them. But I'm not going to let some PBG have a free shot at my back, either.

    I'm thinking the PBG was a predator looking for easy prey, maybe a purse-snatching, maybe a smash & grab on a car, came across non-prey and decided to leave. He didn't see the guns, just someone aware.

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  3. #32
    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    Hi guys!

    First off, let me say that I know all the parties in question (except the possible BG). SOFLASMG can be a bit, shall we say, difficult - as he has demonstated with his sarcasm. I'll second what has been said already by the boss - that sort of stuff really has no place here. Knock it off.

    Having said that, here are a couple of things that may have some bearing on the decisions that he made during the incident in question:

    First off, his wife had their small son in tow, and she happens to be very pregnant. For him to have attempted to retreat at that time, it would have been necessary to abandon her and their son - there is no way that she could have moved quickly enough to escape. Obviously, that was not an option.

    Secondly, the area in question is one that I personally know pretty well. It is a tourist area in which visitors are routinely ambushed and killed. SOFLASMG is also aware of this factor. (He had to be there, btw, for a work related function)

    Thirdly, what he also failed to mention was that the BG was parallelling them and looking 360 while doing so - all while having one hand in a jacket pocket - clearly not just someone walking thru the same parking lot, but rather a very probable predator.

    Finally, he drew the firearm with his gun side away from said BG, in low light - which made it highly unlikely that the individual in question would have seen anything more than a body movement consistant with a draw stroke. I doubt that the firearm was seen by anyone. It is my understanding that he assumed a "low ready" position, and did not actually point the firearm at anyone - all while being behind cover. Since FL has no "duty to retreat", and this area is known by LEO's and Prosecuters as one frequented by predators, I doubt that his actions would have resulted in any legal issues. Anyone with any real "street smarts" knows that if you actually wait for an opponent to present a firearm before taking defensive action, you're probably gonna die. Said BG could well have simply shot him thru his jacket, without ever having actually presented a weapon. Overall, I've got to say that I believe his response was as textbook perfect as anything in real life can ever be.

  4. #33
    Member Array soflasmg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Brommeland
    Hi guys!

    First off, let me say that I know all the parties in question (except the possible BG). SOFLASMG can be a bit, shall we say, difficult - as he has demonstated with his sarcasm.
    Gary, I must state firmly that I resemble that comment!
    The Marshmallowist

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by soflasmg
    I did not notify police. I considered it, but no crime had been commited.
    According to Massad Ayoob, it's best to notify the police so that if the BG tries to claim you pulled a gun on him for no reason, you'll be on record for having notified the police first.

  6. #35
    Member Array mcclearypl's Avatar
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    Never Never Never Never Never talk to the police without a lawyer there. You have the right to shut up please have the ability to do so. No matter how right the shooting any mis-spoken word can and will be used to damage your story. Be polite but insist on your right to your lawyer. If you do not have one get one it will pay off. A night in the slammer is better than life in a prison any way you cut it.
    Philip L. McCleary
    Security via CCW
    and a lot of practice
    Dispatchers have the best jobs
    we tell the police where to go and they have
    to do it. Policy manual says so.

    de N4LNE

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye680
    Does FL have a law against carrying in a restaraunt that serves alcohol like GA does?
    No. As long as you sit in the restaurant portion and do not go to the bar. In a TAVERN which by legal definition gets most of it's profit from alcohol sales, CCW is forbidden.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmidkiff
    ..... civil charges happen far more often. Mama BG was deprived of her precious son, who never did anything wrong...

    From everything I've read, even if criminal charges aren't filed, you are still likely to loose everything trying to settle the civil charges. Beats being dead by a large margin.
    Thanks be to JEB BUSH that is no longer the case in Florida! With the passage and activation of the new Expanded Castle Doctrine law, in the event of a justifiable defense shooting, where the defender had a right to be present and be armed as well, there can be no charges filed and ALL civil lawsuits from the BG or his estate are forbidden.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    Amen, Brother!!!

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array sixgun's Avatar
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    Glad to hear everything went ok for you and your family. The bg defenitly got the message. Concealed carry the element of surprise in our favor. Have a good one and be safe.

    Sixgun

  11. #40
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Glad you and your family are safe. this is the best kind of encounter, did you report it? If so how did they police respond?

    Having your wife and son with you is a pretty good reason for self defense.

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array WJP9's Avatar
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    Nice work. Bottom line...your actions may have prevented harm to your family and self. This is why you carry. We may never wish to harm anybody for the reprocussions that you mentioned and out of respect for human life, but for saving YOUR life or your FAMILY's life these are necessary sacrifices.
    -Bill

    "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."

  13. #42
    Senior Member Array Rugerman's Avatar
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    Yeah, speaking of political ambitious DA's look at those kids at DUKE. The DA has held 70 press conferences so far. I would hate to have him as my DA in a self defense shooting case.
    George Washington: "A free people ought to be armed."

  14. #43
    Member Array soflasmg's Avatar
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    I hadn't thought about this in awhile (happened in Jan), but my wife and I were discussing God's grace and the main thought was how training probably prevented this from escalating into a justifiable shooting.

    In retrospect the guy probably realized this was not panning out according to plan and boogied.


    I give the training credit to Chuck Taylor and Nelson Marchand (eagletactics1 on this board I think). They both stress aftermath consideration as true tactical concerns and boy are they right. I was able to position myself and my family to a tactical advantage that not only all but insured my winning a gunfight, but I believe defused the situation and prevented gunfire because it clearly became hopeless to the bg.

    The other thing these guys stress is repetition of weapon presentation and manipulation. Nothing fancy like kwikkill or easymaim but simple repetitive motions that can be reproduced under stress so that tactical thought process is the primary focus instead of weapon handling.
    The Marshmallowist

  15. #44
    Member Array Mr_Dove's Avatar
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    I can sympathize with your position. I have a 4 year old and a 1 year old. I would be in no position to attempt to retreat. I also think that with certain bad guys if you wait for them to present their weapons, its already too late for you. Action is always faster than re-action. I'm sure the law frowns on this though.

  16. #45
    Member Array Boomer45's Avatar
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    Lots of good , thought provoking, comments on this thread. For those of us who do not live in states where the expanded Castle Doctrine has been implemented, the above situation clearly demonstrates why we should be talking to our State Representative in an effort to get this added to our current CCW laws.

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