Bad: Gunman Robs Church in Henderson Texas (sort of)

Bad: Gunman Robs Church in Henderson Texas (sort of)

This is a discussion on Bad: Gunman Robs Church in Henderson Texas (sort of) within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I saw this while visiting my in-laws for Christmas. The BG was lucky in that the congregation resisted peacefully (that is, they didn't shoot him). ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array chenemf's Avatar
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    Bad: Gunman Robs Church in Henderson Texas (sort of)

    I saw this while visiting my in-laws for Christmas. The BG was lucky in that the congregation resisted peacefully (that is, they didn't shoot him).

    We were laughing at dinner tonight. If this had been our church, most everyone from the preacher to the little old lady in the front pew is armed and the BG would likely not have been so lucky.

    In any case, glad to see it worked out so well for the Good Guys.


    Tyler Paper - Tyler Morning Telegraph


  2. #2
    Member Array concealed's Avatar
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    Lucky Texans. In Virginia, you are not allowed to carry in a place of worship while a gathering is occuring for the purpose of worship.

  3. #3
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    Lucky for him he picked a Mormon church to rob. Southern Baptist would have ventilated him!
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    It's only sheer blind luck, IMO, that the armed robber didn't blow a gasket when they refused. Had this been another idiot, it could have gone very differently.

    Glad everyone made it out okay.

    The robber is now on the street to continue his evil acts. At some point, he's going to kill someone ... unless he's stopped. But then, it's Texas. It's only a matter of time.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    He was lucky,there are lots of people in tx that cary in church
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    if i had been there things would have gone a little differently.

    they were lucky this creep wasn't all pumped up on drugs,
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concealed View Post
    Lucky Texans. In Virginia, you are not allowed to carry in a place of worship while a gathering is occuring for the purpose of worship.
    Unless you have a good and sufficient reason:
    18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

    If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

    (Code 1950, 18.1-241; 1960, c. 358; 1962, c. 411; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)
    "Defending the innocent", "bad guys sometimes target churches", and "the pastor told me to" seem to fill the bill.
    Recently updated website: http://www.damagedphotorepair.com

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paymeister View Post
    Unless you have "...a good and sufficient reason" ...

    "Defending the innocent", "bad guys sometimes target churches", and "the pastor told me to" seem to fill the bill.
    Seems to me that this is THE only reason, really, any of us carries a weapon: the defense if innocent life ... irrespective of when or where. Why on earth that's ever considered insufficient (such as in might-really-never-issue portions of this country), I will never understand.

    Just think how differently this specific attack ended up, as compared to the massacre at Luby's Cafe some years back. It could easily have been much the same.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #9
    Member Array concealed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paymeister View Post
    Unless you have a good and sufficient reason:
    You are correct. But what good reason would you have for carying a weapon to Church?

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concealed View Post
    You are correct. But what good reason would you have for carying a weapon to Church?
    The preservation of innocent life, of course. Same as anywhere else. (It's a defensive weapon, remember. Only criminals use 'em differently.)
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #11
    Member Array concealed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    The preservation of innocent life, of course. Same as anywhere else.
    Incorrect. You have to have a reason to "carry" in a church. Without a real and present danger, you will not be able to carry into a church in the State of Virginia. Your response to LEO or a judge, will get you convicted as Guilty as fact as you can repeat your quote.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concealed View Post
    Incorrect. You have to have a reason to "carry" in a church. Without a real and present danger, you will not be able to carry into a church in the State of Virginia. Your response to LEO or a judge, will get you convicted as Guilty as fact as you can repeat your quote.
    Apologies for your or anyone else's confusion. I don't live in Virginia. I also wasn't speaking to Virginia law, in that quip. I was simply grousing about the lunacy of any law that could suggest "a good and sufficient reason" couldn't include the defense of innocent life. The fact that such law could exist amazes me.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #13
    Member Array concealed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Apologies for your or anyone else's confusion. I don't live in Virginia. I also wasn't speaking to Virginia law, in that quip. I was simply grousing about the lunacy of any law that could suggest "a good and sufficient reason" couldn't include the defense of innocent life. The fact that such law could exist amazes me.
    No problem. My response was for the same reason. I find it silly that we cannot carry in a house of worship. Now, maybe it should be required to be concealed for the respect of others, but in the State of Va it is the Concealed that is for all intent and purpose banned.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by concealed View Post
    No problem. My response was for the same reason. I find it silly that we cannot carry in a house of worship. Now, maybe it should be required to be concealed for the respect of others, but in the State of Va it is the Concealed that is for all intent and purpose banned.
    Unfortunately that is not true. If you read the statute it does not differentiate between open or conceal carry.

    18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

    If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

    (Code 1950, 18.1-241; 1960, c. 358; 1962, c. 411; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)
    If you do carry and are charged it's a crap shoot, depending on what the judges opinion of what "good and sufficient reason" is.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Ridgeline's Avatar
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    To all of you folks living in VA, I think it may be a good time to work to change the your carry law. I carry everwhere it is legal, including church for that very reason. (Southern Baptist by the way)
    "Eternity is Too Long to be Wrong"

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