January 1st, 2009 12:30 AM
Bad guy gets shot 22 times - 17 COM with a .40 but still shoots a cop 4 times(merged)
Officer shoots perp 22 times, 17 hits center mass, with a 40 cal Glock loaded with ranger SXT's, and the perp (only slightly intoxicated ) lives until the hospital. Officer gets shot 4 times but he is saved by vest. I don't carry any extra magazines but maybe I should...
Officer Down - The Peter Soulis Incident
Resilience to Gunfire
Palmer took an astonishing 22 hits, seventeen of which were to center mass, before succumbing to his wounds, and Officer Soulis was shot four times without suffering any serious adverse effects on his performance. These facts point out why it is so vitally important to understand that bullets donít always stop their target, even when they strike vital areas in large numbers. While we it is important to be confidence in our firearms and our proficiency in their use, we must accept the fact that they may not incapacitate an assailant as quickly as we would like. We must be prepared to keep shooting until the threat is terminated, move to another location, go for another weapon, or otherwise adapt. Be ready to beat him over the head with your empty gun, gouge his eyes out, or even thrash his throat with your patrol knife, if necessary.
Also, keep in mind that if your opponent is hard to stop, so are you. Donít worry about your wounds, because the odds are incredibly good that you will survive them. Less than ten percent of all gunshot wounds are mortal injuries, and most of those are instantaneously fatal, so it is highly unlikely that you will die if you are still alive after being hit. Human beings are amazingly resilient. They can overcome an enormous amount of punishment, especially if they are committed and have a positive attitude about their ability to heal.
Furthermore, worrying will only distract you from the only thing that really matters Ė stopping the threat. Keep fighting, and focus on nothing except winning until the threat has been eliminated.
January 1st, 2009 12:35 AM
Mixed Martial Arts Record= 2-0.......Kyokushin Karate Record=5-0
USMC.....helping enemies of America die for their countries since 1775
January 1st, 2009 01:34 AM
Just another case of why no honest man needs more than 10 rounds!
Anyway, glad to hear the officer is okay.
January 1st, 2009 01:59 AM
Oh hell. I need to switch from a G27 to a G30 (sarcasm). Shot placement is key.
G19, G23, P2000 (9mm), LMT Defender 2000 (SOPMOD), Colt LE6920, Ruger 10/22
January 1st, 2009 07:03 AM
I am willing to bet that if the information is ever released, those 17 COM shots are mostly or primarly shots to places on the body (not arms or legs) that are peripheral such as shoulder, gut, or glancing shots that may have entered at a good location, but at an angle such that the shot did not penetrate deeply. For example, I have seen where a guy was shot in the center of the chest with a round that should have been fatal had he been facing the shooter, but he was turning from the shooter and the shot entered at the sternum and passed through the left pectoral muscle before exiting the body, not even entering the chest cavity. Technically, it was not just a COM shot, but COC shot, but was at the wrong angle to cause any real harm.
Points to consider are that people are 3-D structures (not just 2-D) and so it isn't just shot placement that is critical, but placement AND trajectory. COM (actual center of mass and not center of chest) shots are actually high gut shots that aren't known to be good stoppers, painful maybe, but not stoppers. Never turn your back, drop your guard, or otherwise count out an armed and downed bad guy. The bad guy in the story shot the officer in the leg after going down the first time, and attempted to drive after being downed a second time.
Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.
January 1st, 2009 09:09 AM
Kind of hard to believe but I have heard other similar stories and all proven to be true. I guess the lesson is shot placement and extra mags
Why Would A Preacher ever need a Gun? Its Not for the Sheep , its for the Wolves!
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January 1st, 2009 09:12 AM
The BG lived only 4min after the shooting, wonder how many of the 17 shots where through the glass before hitting the BG?
The cop is a real hero, glad that there is guys like him out on patrol and that he's OK.
While people are saying "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, ... and they will not escape. 1Th 5:3
January 1st, 2009 10:48 AM
So many hits on the scumbag and he was still in the fight. Definitely makes me rethink the need to carry an extra mag. Imagine if the guy was high on PCP or something similar and felt he was superman.
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."
- Thomas Jefferson
"I'm the arrow, you're my bow, shoot me forth and I will go"
"Do not let any individual posts put a knot in your Big Boy Under-Roos"
January 1st, 2009 11:16 AM
That's the most important part of this.
Originally Posted by razz
Distill it down to this.
"If you ain't dead, fight harder! If they ain't dead, make 'em dead"
If you are justified in shooting in the first place, do what it takes to end it.
January 1st, 2009 11:20 AM
After reading back up another thing comes to mind.
"Mozambique Drill" Learn it and be proficient at it.
Goes back to "make 'em dead."
Google it if you don't know what it is.
January 1st, 2009 11:27 AM
This is why IDPA and others teach/train the 'Failure To Stop Drill'.
Two to the body/CoM followed by one, or more, to the head.
Real world there have been more than a few cases where persons have been shot either in war, or law enforcement activity, and/or the streets a multiple of times to what most would consider to be a great amount and yet those persons remain animated, motivated, and in the fight to kill...even as they might ultimately and later end up dying.
Good thread post!
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
January 1st, 2009 11:47 AM
Raise your hand if you think that during a dynamic violent confrontation at say 7 yards you believe you will be able to put rounds COM into a person that is attacking you and then transition to head shots. My hand will stay down.
Whenever you are utilizing hydraulic trauma to stop a human it is likely to take a while. One shot stops are usually achieved through trauma to the central nervous system and in some cases the heart/lungs being totally blown out.
I have witnessed ambulation after death after the subject was struck with several rounds of 9MM and 40 S&W in addition to two rounds of OO Buck from me. Approx 75% of all projectiles struck above the nipple line. Another two rounds of OO buck and more handgun rounds eventually ended his life but it did take a while.
Shoot and move
January 1st, 2009 12:01 PM
Good post. A good reminder to everyone.
That's an extremely important lesson.
While we it is important to be confidence in our firearms and our proficiency in their use, we must accept the fact that they may not incapacitate an assailant as quickly as we would like.
"Murphy" had it right (Murphy's Law): It ain't gonna go as planned.
IDPA 2+1. No guarantees, there, either, but it sidesteps one of the real possibilities.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
January 1st, 2009 12:08 PM
Don't underestimate shots to the pelvic girdle/groin.
January 1st, 2009 12:25 PM
I agree with that.
Originally Posted by mercop
As to your prior post, I will immediately cease training and practicing the Mozambique drill as well as others since I won't be able to perform it for real and will just have to trust to luck to stop a determined aggressor (sarcasm off)
What you said is valid but that is another extraordinary exception to the rule
I'll stick with... 'You will fight like you train" Even in a dynamic situation such as you used an example, training pays off. Or were you completely and totally untrained in that encounter and just "knew" what to do?
No you cant be prepared for every single thing that could happen but to say that no one can fight like they have trained in a dynamic situation is invalid at best.
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