Student Dressed as German Soldier Shot to Death by Police - Page 2

Student Dressed as German Soldier Shot to Death by Police

This is a discussion on Student Dressed as German Soldier Shot to Death by Police within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; A Rebel eh?...

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Thread: Student Dressed as German Soldier Shot to Death by Police

  1. #16
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    A Rebel eh?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    If true ... If you point a rifle at police and refuse commands to drop the weapon then you can expect a police response to that failure. So far as I can tell, the rest of the story's details don't much alter that.

    "He was just fascinated with the past... He liked to dress up and have fun."
    Being a bit more cognizant of the present would have suited him better, with inbound police taking stock of the situation. That's a good reminder to us all, if ever caught in a defensive situation with inbound cavalry getting a first glimpse of a crime scene where we're still standing. Caution.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  3. #18
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    is and was

    He was "a peaceful and loving young man," his mother, Dianne Murphy, told the local newspaper.
    In the was catagory....He was stupid.
    In the Is catagory....He is dead from being stupid

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array Duisburg's Avatar
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    I think this is crazy.

    I do not sympathize with Nazism but this is just crazy.

    What if he dressed up as a confederate and had this happen?
    I am sworn to protect the Constitution of the U.S.A. from all threats both foreign and domestic.

  5. #20
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    I thought it was obvious that pointing a rifle at anyone is a bad idea, and then refusing to put it down even when the person you are pointing it at draws their own gun? WAS HE INSANE?

    If someone pointed a rifle at me I might draw my gun, and if they refused to stop pointing at me I would consider myself justified in firing. In this situation I don't think it matters that the shooter(s) were police, they could just as easily have been civilians and it would still have been okay.
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
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  6. #21
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duisburg View Post
    I think this is crazy.

    I do not sympathize with Nazism but this is just crazy.

    What if he dressed up as a confederate and had this happen?
    The uniform did not get him killed the pointed rifle did. Maybe the article should have simply stated "Man shot while pointing rifle at police". those details that have nothing to do with the basic facts, they only serve to incite an outpouring of public scrutiny.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  7. #22
    Senior Member Array flagflyfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duisburg View Post
    I think this is crazy.

    I do not sympathize with Nazism but this is just crazy.

    What if he dressed up as a confederate and had this happen?
    He'd be just as dead

    I don't care if the guy is wearing a black leather jacket or a pink tutu, if he points a gun at me, He's probably gonna get shot!
    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
    and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
    service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
    love and thanks of man and woman."

    -- Thomas Paine (The American Crisis, No. 1, 19 December 1776)

  8. #23
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    If you dress, look, act, like a goof, and "be" dumb, bad stuff happens.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duisburg View Post
    I think this is crazy.

    I do not sympathize with Nazism but this is just crazy.

    What if he dressed up as a confederate and had this happen?
    He'd be just as dead and his friends and family would be talking about him being a civil war buff. No one claimed he was shot because of the uniform. He was shot because he was armed and refused to follow the order of LEO to put the weapon down.

    mi2az
    I can't stand people who have a fascination with Nazi's. Personally, I do not have any sympathy for the guy.
    Nothing said he had a fascination with Nazi's. Just because he collected WWII German memorabilia does not make him a Nazi. In fact very few German soldiers were Nazi's. Just like very few Soviet Union soldiers were Communist.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    The clothes he was wearing, or not wearing, really have nothing to do with anything.
    Even if he had been butt naked the result would have been same per his action of pointing a weapon at law enforcement officers.
    It is common sense and general knowledge that pointing a _weapon_at a law enforcement officer (!) is justifiable means toward getting yourself shot by said officer.

    In this case dude doubled up on that by means of both a rifle and a bayonet affixed to that rifle.
    Double dumb...Regardless of what his hobby, clothing, or general interests might have been.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #26
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    Clothes make the man....

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    The clothes he was wearing, or not wearing, really have nothing to do with anything.
    Even if he had been butt naked the result would have been same per his action of pointing a weapon at law enforcement officers.
    It is common sense and general knowledge that pointing a _weapon_at a law enforcement officer (!) is justifiable means toward getting yourself shot by said officer.

    In this case dude doubled up on that by means of both a rifle and a bayonet affixed to that rifle.
    Double dumb...Regardless of what his hobby, clothing, or general interests might have been.

    - Janq
    It of course is not right to judge a book by the cover, but as a practical matter, clothes make the man. It is at least possible that had he been dressed in a conventional manner he would have elicited less fear and things would have gone more smoothly. The goofy dress just made him look like they were dealing with an unpredictable nut, and that no doubt enhanced the predictable reaction when he was slow to respond to an order to put the rifle/bayonet down.

    In some ways, quarterbacking after the fact, I wonder if this could have been handled in a less dramatic way--giving some thought to the possibility that this was a mental case. Can someone say Tazer?

    Not faulting anyone though. He pointed a rifle after appearing to fire shots, was looking and acting weirded out and dangerous, the responding officers appear justified.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWRedDragon View Post
    I thought it was obvious that pointing a rifle at anyone is a bad idea, and then refusing to put it down even when the person you are pointing it at draws their own gun? WAS HE INSANE?...
    Sadly... the Officers had their rifles at the ready and when he emerged with his Rifle they brought them to bear on him. He still didn't get it.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  13. #28
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    Can someone say Tazer?
    Yeah I can say it, but I wouldnt in this case.

    One thing about Tazer class that they stress...
    If someone is threatening with a gun, knife or other weapon, forget the Tazer.

    Use at least equal force or better yet use overwhelming force.

    A guy with an 8mm Mauser with a foot and half long bayonet pointing it at you or anyone else is NOT the time to be thinking Tazer.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Agreed HotGuns, very much so.

    The officers have no way at all to know if the rifle is active and not a toy or deactivated prop. They have no way to know if it is loaded with live ammo or 'blanks' or snap caps or nothing at all. They also have no way to know the mindset of this person regardless of the clothing he was wearing.
    What they do/did know though in the immediate is that they have a fool with a rifle and fixed bayonet pointed at them and he is not complying when told to put the weapons plural down, NOW!.

    A smart and wise and sensible minded sane person would immediately comply and literally drop the weapon.

    Anything else other than that though will very likely gain you additional holes to the body which will come with pain, blood loss, and possibly death.
    Everybody knows this. It's general knowledge and common sense.
    Comply or die when the cops have their own _weapons_ drawn on you. Whether the cops be dressed up in a uniform or average man street clothing.

    Dude caused his own problems for acting foolishly to start, before the cops were called on him. The rest was largely predictable activity and results.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #30
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    If an individual is actually pointing a rifle at Law Enforcement and then refused to drop the weapon when order to do so...then that is the time to shoot that person and not attempt to use Less Than Lethal.
    Whatever he was wearing has nothing to do with the scenario. Even if he was wearing a Keebler Elf costume he should have been shot.
    It was a good shoot.

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