Spokane man shoots at snow plow driver Bad? Good? - Page 2

Spokane man shoots at snow plow driver Bad? Good?

This is a discussion on Spokane man shoots at snow plow driver Bad? Good? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Oh, and they both sound pretty stupid....

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Thread: Spokane man shoots at snow plow driver Bad? Good?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Oh, and they both sound pretty stupid.


  2. #17
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    It sounds like the warning shot was probably not warranted, but what if Mr. Snowplow ran back to his truck and returned with a gun of his own?

    It sounds to me like Mr. Snowplow was looking for a fight, and if he did have a gun would have used it. I'm not sure how this whole thing would have ended but it seems that the shooter sending a warning was escalating the situation.

    However, even if he had not fired that shot, I get the impression that just the pointing of the gun would have lead Mr. Snowplow back to his truck and returning with his gun anyway.

    So can the shot be seen as a preemptive strike so-to-speak? I mean after all the shooter did not know for sure that Mr. Snowplow was armed?

    I don't know but I'm sure the lawyers will sort it out.

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    I am quite familiar with the disparity of force concept; I've myself explained it in more than one post. I also know that, barring some sort of infirmity on the part of Mr. Hunt, 1-on-1 male victim is going to have the hardest time proving a disparity of force in court. So, while I won't say there wasn't a disparity of force, I don't see any reason to assume there was.

    As for why anybody would talk like Snow Plow here, this could easily be post-confrontation bragadoccio. "Yeah, yeah, I would have totally kicked the stuffing out of that guy, if only he hadn't cheated by pulling a gun!!!"

    Maybe Snow Plow is an unremittant hothead. That's an assumption, and I am pointing out that one can just as easily make an assumption in the other direction. And a bad temper and a shove still don't justify shooting.

    I stand by my original comment---barring siginificant circumstances beyond what was reported, the gun and the shot were in no way justified, and Hunt deserves to be arrested for assault with a deadly weapon; Snow Plow probably deserves to be charged with some sort of misdemeanor.
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  4. #19
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    I am glad this is an interesting thread. That is why I started it.

    When this news story first broke, it was a media "slam dunk". The man who fired the shot had been arrested and was being charged...as more details come out, things get more and more murky.

    My take on it: They should both be charged with some sort of assault. Snow plow driver admitted to assaulting the guy. (something like a 3rd or 4th degree- a misdemeanor) I do not think firing a shot was a reasonable response to the situation (as presented) so the charges toward the shooter should remain. If they have a great lawyer, they might be able to squeeze out of it.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Wonder if the shot was an ND. Also wonder at what point the shooter got out of his vehicle, and if he was blocked in.
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  6. #21
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    IANAL, but I think the biggest problem Hunt is going to have to overcome is that he pulled the trigger. Based on a couple of Smith's statements:
    "I was ready to fight, I was ready to box the guy, I was mad, he was mad, I felt that after he went after my truck the only way to solve it was for somebody to be laying in the snow," Smith said.
    I pushed him and drew back to punch him and as soon as I did that the gun came out
    I think Hunt may have been justified to pull the firearm. But firing a shot after Smith had started to move away (by Smith's account) was probably not necessary and the action that's going to get him into real trouble. It definitely appears by Smith's own statements that he was the aggressor.

    I do find it amazing that a near miss accident, no contact, no harm, no foul, had to digress into this bad of a situation. Maybe we need to pass a law that every licensed drive has to go to a gym once a week and punch the heck out of a heavy bag so they can relieve their frustrations and not have to take it out on each other. It's just getting crazy.

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  7. #22
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    IANAL, but I think the biggest problem Hunt is going to have to overcome is that he pulled the trigger. Based on a couple of Smith's statements:


    I think Hunt may have been justified to pull the firearm. But firing a shot after Smith had started to move away (by Smith's account) was probably not necessary and the action that's going to get him into real trouble. It definitely appears by Smith's own statements that he was the aggressor.

    I do find it amazing that a near miss accident, no contact, no harm, no foul, had to digress into this bad of a situation. Maybe we need to pass a law that every licensed drive has to go to a gym once a week and punch the heck out of a heavy bag so they can relieve their frustrations and not have to take it out on each other. It's just getting crazy.

    Hoss
    In my opinion, as someone who's driven in every state on both coasts recently, the drivers in WA and the DC Beltway are the worst in the Nation. I'm not talking about inattentiveness - I'm talking about reckless behavior, road rage, aggressive attitude, chasing other drivers, intentionally hitting other cars, pulling over and getting in fist fights... it's completely disgusting.
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  8. #23
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    Um, unless I missed something, there is nothing OP saying that Hunt was spoiling for a fight.

    Consider this highly speculative scenario:
    You are in a parking lot in a snow storm, the roads are slippery. Backing up you almost run into a snow plow. You get out of your vehicle to apologize, and check for damage. The other driver gets out of his vehicle and approaches. Nothing unusual so far. Drivers exchange information after accidents all the time. Suddenly before words are even spoken he shoves you and reaches back for a knock out punch. He is much larger and apparently stronger than you. You are a pencil pusher. He is obviously not. You are older, out of shape and have a seriously bad back. A beating could leave you crippled for life or dead. Retreat is not a viable option as the roads are slick, you are off balance from being pushed, you would have to either run backwards or turn your back on an aggressor, plus as already stated you are out of shape. Fortunately for you, you CC. You pull your weapon and fire. But despite your CC instructor's warning, you fire a warning shot, or maybe you just plain miss, easy to do. Who can say other than you.

    You're big mistake is talking too much. "He attacked, in fear for my life, I defended myself. I would like to talk to my lawyer." All that needs to be said.

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kazzaerexys View Post
    Snow plow driver did not present a lethal threat to Hunt. There is no justification for the shot being fired. The plow driver never even got around to throwing a punch:

    I don't think that pushing somebody during a verbal altercation is going to be a felony---misdemeanor battery at best---so there isn't even a justification for drawing to effect a citizen's arrest, as no felony was committed.

    I think they're both idiots, and they should probably both be charged, but there's only one felon here, and that's the guy with the gun.
    OK lets say the guy with the gun was around 65yo, 5'8", 140 lbs. and has a pissed off snow plow driver who lets say is 24yo, 6'4", 230lbs. lifts weights on the weekend, has him blocked in a driveway and coming after him to beat him up.

    Is there justification now?

    Or what if when the snow plow driver went to push him, he was scared and was pulling his weapon and the push caused him to fire.

    There's too much one sided information here. I'd like to see how this pans out. Keep us posted.
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    he should have just ordered the plow driver back in his truck after drawing then called police to file assault charges...stupid to shoot at him imo

    im not from a place that gets much snow but, how does someone almost back into a snow plow? seems like it would be obvious it was there.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormbringerr View Post
    im not from a place that gets much snow but, how does someone almost back into a snow plow? seems like it would be obvious it was there.
    The guy was driving a pickup with a plow on the front. It wasn't one of the highway "dumptruck" sized snowplows.
    eschew obfuscation

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  12. #27
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    This situation is why brandishing should be legalized. It seems to me that as soon as the shooter presented his weapon, the plow driver had a change of heart re: kicking his a**. Flashing your weapon=problem solved, right?

    (Just kidding, of course, for those who missed the sarcasm )
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  13. #28
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperKnight View Post
    The guy was driving a pickup with a plow on the front. It wasn't one of the highway "dumptruck" sized snowplows.
    i understand that, it still should be obvious w/the noise and all i would think.don't they have warning lights also on top of the trucks.
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  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormbringerr View Post
    he should have just ordered the plow driver back in his truck after drawing then called police to file assault charges...stupid to shoot at him imo.
    I'll bet he had not intended to fire at him...but drew with finger on the trigger and like very many others state of same; "The gun just went off in my hand!".
    Fear gripping + finger on trigger= BANG!

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  15. #30
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    I'll bet he had not intended to fire at him...but drew with finger on the trigger and like very many others state of same; "The gun just went off in my hand!".
    Fear gripping + finger on trigger= BANG!

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    I think you may be right not to mention being on a slippery surface and you lose your balance and start to fall if you got your booger hook on the trigger
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