Well, that really almost got out of hand!

This is a discussion on Well, that really almost got out of hand! within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I had the opportunity to engage a target with lethal force just the other week. I walked across my parking lot in the wee early ...

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Thread: Well, that really almost got out of hand!

  1. #1
    Member Array d2thomas's Avatar
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    Well, that really almost got out of hand!

    I had the opportunity to engage a target with lethal force just the other week.
    I walked across my parking lot in the wee early morning hours on weekend night to warm up my car.
    I noticed a car pull out of a spot down the way with some kids who had just left a party [I'm guessing]. Well, as soon as I began to cross back over to enter my apartment, the vehicle suddenly took off and began speeding toward me. The driver then slammed on the brakes and skidded to a stop about 1.5 inches from my leg.
    The moment directly before that I had every legal right to draw down and begin firing into the vehicle and a huge part of me wanted to - but I resisted.
    There are a million and one reasons it could have happened - maybe he really didn't see me because of an icy windshield - who knows.
    One this is for sure, had I unloaded a clip into his windshield, someone would be dead right now.

    So after I stood there in shock for a second and then recomposed myself, I took a step out of the way. The car began to speed off and I shouted: "Watch where you're going!" BRAKE LIGHTS.....then this guy gets out of the passenger side and begins yelling at me.
    I do not reply. The driver gets out. They both begin to yell. They glance at each other and begin to walk toward me.
    At this time I begin to find cover and prepare myself for a draw. I tell them that "if they come any closer I am willing and able to inflict lethal force upon them and I was within my legal rights to do that when they sped their vehicle at me!"
    .....They both begin to scramble back to the car as fast as they can, and I hear one guy say "OH _ _ _ _, that guy was reaching!".
    Afterward I noticed a guy coming up from behind. As I turned to assess the situation he says to me "Don't worry man, I saw the whole thing.....do you have a permit for the weapon?"
    Of course, at this point I'm a little upset/shook up, and I'm sure I didn't answer him in the most polite fashion but, it was nice to know I had a witness had the SHTF.
    All in all, perfect ending.
    I wasn't injured and the guys weren't dead but, I did get the ability to test my readiness.

    ...on a side note, after all this went down my friend came out of my apartment and was like "What the heck just happened?"....and I was like, "Oh nothing, let's go."
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  3. #2
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    The driver then slammed on the brakes and skidded to a stop about 1.5 inches from my leg.
    Not knowing distances involved - I am wondering just how much time you had for decision-making.

    How much time if you had felt shooting was only option? - how much time to be able to side-step and be out of the way.?

    To still be in one place when the car stops 1.5" away makes it seem as tho, had the driver been inaccurate with his scare-tactic braking - you might have been going to hospital!!

    I know things happen fast but I can only imagine myself that, as watching an oncoming speeding vehicle - I am gonna be very rapidly seeking another place to stand
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    Wow, be careful out there. I don't think " opportunity" is the word you want to use in describing this incident. Personally , I re read it a few times to understand your perspective. Perhaps "distinct displeasure"? Opportunity sounds as if you are looking for trouble, which I doubt you are.

  5. #4
    Member Array d2thomas's Avatar
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    It's hard to recall the detail of events exactly as occured but in the situation [dark street, potentionally ice parking lot] but it would have been impossible to have removed myself. Other than what occured there would have only been two other options 1] been hit by a car 2] unloaded a few into the car and then been hit by it. Bullets are not going to stop a moving car and that is another reason I refrained. When you see a car speeding toward you, the split second you have to assess threat potential is minimal at best.

    The situation did end better than I could have hoped for, thats for sure.
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    Well, I wasn't there, but based on your description of the event, I can't fault your decisions or the reasons for them.

    One thing you might have done differently is call the police immediately afterwards to put your version of the incident on the record, in case these two clowns beat you to the punch by calling the police first and accusing you of brandishing or threatening them with a firearm. You didn't do this, of course, but if the police heard their version before yours, you might be considered the aggressor instead of the victim.


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    Distinguished Member Array jarhead79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch
    Well, I wasn't there, but based on your description of the event, I can't fault your decisions or the reasons for them.

    One thing you might have done differently is call the police immediately afterwards to put your version of the incident on the record, in case these two clowns beat you to the punch by calling the police first and accusing you of brandishing or threatening them with a firearm. You didn't do this, of course, but if the police heard their version before yours, you might be considered the aggressor instead of the victim.
    That's where that witness comes in.

    We have the 21 foot rule for a knife threat. What's the distance for a car threat?

    If the car is coming at you already, you probably barely have enough time to get out of the way, no less grab your gun, raise and fire.

    I think if you have time to draw down, you could likely get out of the path, unless you're in an alley or something.
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    D2,
    You done good man. I second the idea of calling the police after the incident.

    We can only "Monday morning" quarterback here since we weren't there, but this reads similar to that other thread about shooting into cars. Generally, it's a very bad idea. First the bullets won't stop the car. You may hit someone in the car that had no idea the driver was going to do what he did. That could go as high as 2nd degree murder. If you hit the driver, who's going to be in control of the the car until it stops? Where is it going to go?

    You did good not to shoot. Congrats on handling the situation.

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    Member Array sarhog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2thomas
    I tell them that "if they come any closer I am willing and able to inflict lethal force upon them and I was within my legal rights to do that when they sped their vehicle at me!"
    You're kidding about this part, right??
    I reckon I would have just said, "STOP, or I'll shoot!"

    Good luck, and be careful.
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    VIP Member Array artz's Avatar
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    Wow ! 1.5 inches.... I would've been sweating bullets and my panty's would have been full.
    Thats 1.5 inches that coulda left you crippled for life or dead....

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    Member Array d2thomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarhog
    You're kidding about this part, right??
    I reckon I would have just said, "STOP, or I'll shoot!"

    Good luck, and be careful.

    I dunno where you are but here in NOT REALLY GUN FRIENDLY MICHIGAN you have to be sure to make CLEAR your intentions, loud enough for any [and in my case one] witnesses to hear and be able to testify to. Besides, in some cases that one clear forceful voice is enough to send a person into retreat [case and point].
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  12. #11
    Member Array d2thomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    D2,
    You done good man. I second the idea of calling the police after the incident.

    We can only "Monday morning" quarterback here since we weren't there, but this reads similar to that other thread about shooting into cars. Generally, it's a very bad idea. First the bullets won't stop the car. You may hit someone in the car that had no idea the driver was going to do what he did. That could go as high as 2nd degree murder. If you hit the driver, who's going to be in control of the the car until it stops? Where is it going to go?

    You did good not to shoot. Congrats on handling the situation.
    I won't bother calling the police, considering I intern there during the week....if I get around to it I'll have a officer make my report!
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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2thomas
    I dunno where you are but here in NOT REALLY GUN FRIENDLY MICHIGAN you have to be sure to make CLEAR your intentions, loud enough for any [and in my case one] witnesses to hear and be able to testify to.

    Must be your location in MI. Up here we are gun friendly. Heck Opener of deer season is a holiday.

  14. #13
    Senior Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by d2thomas
    I won't bother calling the police, considering I intern there during the week....if I get around to it I'll have a officer make my report!
    The point of calling the police immediately puts you on record as the good guy. If those guys had called the police first and said you threatened them with deadly force for no reason (we know you had a reason, but they will claim otherwise) it could have caused you some real problems.

    Plus, it could be difficult to convince a jury/judge that you were in fear of your life but didn't bother to call the police.

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    VIP Member Array artz's Avatar
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    good point.... on the phone call. I never looked at it that way...

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    Quote Originally Posted by artz
    good point.... on the phone call. I never looked at it that way...
    Thanks, but I really shouldn't take credit for it, it's just stuff I've learned from others over the years. I learned the call the police thing from an article written by Masod Ayoob.

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