U.S. jury finds rancher liable in vigilante trial - Page 3

U.S. jury finds rancher liable in vigilante trial

This is a discussion on U.S. jury finds rancher liable in vigilante trial within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by matiki The more I read, the less I'm on the ranchers side. Sounds like a routine pattern of detaining for misdemeanors, and ...

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Thread: U.S. jury finds rancher liable in vigilante trial

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    The more I read, the less I'm on the ranchers side. Sounds like a routine pattern of detaining for misdemeanors, and allegations of bad behavior in doing so.
    I looked at those articles and got the opposite impression. I thought there might be some evidence that he abused them in some way. Yes he has a routine pattern of detaining illegal aliens, criminals caught trespassing on his property. It also sounds like he was not very nice about it. He never offered the criminal invaders tea and crumpets. Nor was he very polite even going so far as to hurt their feelings and scare them. How sad to bad. At least that is what happened according to the testimony of the criminals whose criminal actives he prevented. What did he do that was wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by PHOENIX (Reuters)
    The suit alleged Barnett held them captive at gunpoint, threatening that his dog would attack and that he would shoot anyone who tried to leave.
    What is wrong with that? He stopped international criminals illegally invading our country in the midst of committing multiple crimes and held them until the proper authorities arrived. How can that possibly be wrong? The investigating local and federal authorities found no wrong doing. Mackenzie is the only American Citizen that seems to have any negative statement about Barnett. Mackenzie is a self admitted criminal that knowingly aids and abets criminal aliens and potential terrorists in the furtherance of their illegal activities. Why does his word have any credibility? Please do not argue that he is acting in the service of his church, the 9/11 terrorists were acting in service to their church. What Mackenzie does is aid criminals and potential terrorists knowingly endangering the security of this nation. Sorry I am rabid, preaching to the choir. I just do not get it.
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  2. #32
    Member Array swaggs's Avatar
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    Regardless of what I say below, I'm with the rancher on this side. I would rather throw him a party or parade for helping stop ILLEGAL immigrants.

    However, even after reading the article four times, I'm still missing the part where it says this all occured on HIS PROPERTY. Since this seems to be the basis for most of the opinions in this thread, could someone point it out to me? As I read it, it sounds more to me like he was acting as a civilian border guard and going out to known migrant routes.
    (Now, please reread my opening statement here, and have a nice day! )
    "Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less."
    "Save in defense of my native State, with the sincere hope that my poor services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword" - Gen. R. E. Lee

  3. #33
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    However, even after reading the article four times, I'm still missing the part where it says this all occured on HIS PROPERTY. Since this seems to be the basis for most of the opinions in this thread, could someone point it out to me? As I read it, it sounds more to me like he was acting as a civilian border guard and going out to known migrant routes.
    (Now, please reread my opening statement here, and have a nice
    I dont see where it makes any difference. He was apprehending criminals.

    As for the penalty assessed on him because he was doing the job that our governement officials couldnt or wouldnt do, it just goes to show how upside down our entire system has become. What is right is now wrong and what is wrong is now right and it starts from the top down...all the way to the idividual people that arent smart enough to figure it out.

    The penalty is ridiculous.
    The fact that ANY illegal alien even has a say in this country is ridiculous.
    The fact that ANY illegal alien can SUE a property owner is ridiculous.
    When ANY illegal alien even shows up to file a complaint and it is found that they are not citizens here, they ought to be put on a bus and taken back to the border.

    Lets turn it around and try that stunt in Mexico and see what happens.Oh wait, we woudn't ever know cause illegal aliens there that are caught would be in some dungeon for a few years.

    Even the title of the article calls the rancher a vigilante just because he was doing what the government refuses to do is brainwashing at its finest.

    It appears to be working quite well.
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  4. #34
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    The penalty is ridiculous.
    The fact that ANY illegal alien even has a say in this country is ridiculous.
    The fact that ANY illegal alien can SUE a property owner is ridiculous.
    When ANY illegal alien even shows up to file a complaint and it is found that they are not citizens here, they ought to be put on a bus and taken back to the border.

    My thoughts exactly. I think the U.S. Border Patrol should put this guy on the payroll.

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  5. #35
    Member Array swaggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    I think the U.S. Border Patrol should put this guy on the payroll.
    They owe him some form of gratitude for him doing thier jobs!!! The whole issue actually ticks me off. We found an illegal immigrant in new england one time - questioned him and he admitted he was illegal, no papers or anything. We called his dad, explained the situation and his father admitted his son was illegal. We called ICE and they asked if he had committed a felony. We said no, they said, oh well then were not going to take any action whiskey tango...???

    HG, I agree, his property or not, it doesn't make a difference, I was just pointing out that a vast majority of the posts here used the illegals tresspassing on the rancher's property and him defending his personal property as grounds for his actions, which appear to be false statements in this situation.
    "Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less."
    "Save in defense of my native State, with the sincere hope that my poor services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword" - Gen. R. E. Lee

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    I looked at those articles and got the opposite impression. I thought there might be some evidence that he abused them in some way. Yes he has a routine pattern of detaining illegal aliens, criminals caught trespassing on his property. It also sounds like he was not very nice about it. He never offered the criminal invaders tea and crumpets. Nor was he very polite even going so far as to hurt their feelings and scare them. How sad to bad. At least that is what happened according to the testimony of the criminals whose criminal actives he prevented. What did he do that was wrong?
    I didn't catch the tea and crumpets part. Maybe you can provide a link?

    These are from the articles I linked:

    A jury on Nov. 22 awarded the damages to two men and three girls Barnett confronted while they hunted deer on his leased grazing land in Douglas on Oct. 30, 2004.

    *

    The hunters accused Barnett of threatening to shoot them with an AR-15 rifle and using racial slurs. Barnett testified that he only took out the weapon because the men were armed. He also denied using racist language.
    Unabashed, Roger Barnett has said many times in the past that he will continue looking for illegal immigrants who trespass on his property, will help his neighbors if asked and will detain groups he finds on public lands and highways.
    Roger Barnett had begun tracking the migrants on his property and continued on to the church's land where he was trespassing, Mackenzie said.



    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    What is wrong with that? He stopped international criminals illegally invading our country in the midst of committing multiple crimes and held them until the proper authorities arrived.
    Held them at gun point, for non-felonious activity.

    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    How can that possibly be wrong? The investigating local and federal authorities found no wrong doing.
    That's a strong argument. We all know that the border patrol is infallible.

    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    Mackenzie is the only American Citizen that seems to have any negative statement about Barnett. Mackenzie is a self admitted criminal that knowingly aids and abets criminal aliens and potential terrorists in the furtherance of their illegal activities. Why does his word have any credibility? Please do not argue that he is acting in the service of his church, the 9/11 terrorists were acting in service to their church. What Mackenzie does is aid criminals and potential terrorists knowingly endangering the security of this nation. Sorry I am rabid, preaching to the choir. I just do not get it.
    Now this is a horrendous argument.
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  7. #37
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    All this verdict will do is ensure the next time someone catches illegals on their land is they won't apprehend them, they will flat out shoot them.

    No witnesses to say they were simply passing through, illegally of course, but only the homeowner on his OWN LAND, protecting his investment and family.

    These illegals should be told they are lucky to be alive and sent back and billed for the bus ticket!
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  8. #38
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    Actually I think border jumnpers are committing a civil not a criminal offense. Didn't congress fail to make this a crime recently?

    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Heres my take on it,If you don't want to get confronted for trespassing illegally then don't come into the USA illegally,I've spent about 18 months and $2000.00 to immigrate my canadian wife here legally.
    You can't get your wife in?

    Quote Originally Posted by M1911A1 View Post
    In many states, your land is only safe from trespass if it is either obviously yours, or clearly posted as yours if it isn't obvious. Further, to forbid hunting you do have to post signs to that effect as a warning.
    Hunters are allowed to trespass on private property unless you post? Weird. All they can do here in VA is retrieve dogs (property) without permission.
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  9. #39
    VIP Member Array crzy4guns's Avatar
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    I wonder what would happen if the rancher lived in Mexico and it was Americans that were trespassing on his property. Could the Americans sue the rancher - I THINK NOT!!! They would have ended up in some dark and dank prison in Mexico. But here in America we reward illegal aliens who break our laws with money and punish tax paying, law abiding citizens doing the federal government's job. I really do fail to see the logic here.
    God bless our troops!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post

    You can't get your wife in?
    ICE is a near totally dysfunctional organization. It was dysfunctional 40 years ago when it was INS; it will remain dysfunctional into the future. CONGRESS is to blame. Excessive complexity in the law, underfunding, combine to make doing things efficiently and justly IMPOSSIBLE.

    For all of you have done battle with other Agencies, trust me, you don't know what a mess is until you deal with ICE.

    The man said he can't get his wife in from Canada, and I certainly believe him.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    ...Hunters are allowed to trespass on private property unless you post?...
    Not exactly. But if you're caught trespassing or hunting on unposted land, it's an affirmative defense to show that the land wasn't posted.
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  12. #42
    VIP Member Array LongRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    I didn't catch the tea and crumpets part. Maybe you can provide a link?
    Come on I was being sarcastic. For the rest I don't personally object to anything he did. The only thing that I find relevant is that they invaded my country illegally

    I suppose the solution is to revise the law so that anyone invading or otherwise entering our country illegally is committing a capitol crime and can be shot on sight.

    After a few return home in body bags they will get the message. Oh maybe they will get mad and not work in the American factories in Mexico.

    Dang that means that Americans will have to man American factories once again. Won't that be a shame Americans with jobs. (FYI that too is intended as sarcasm)

    Seriously I can not get upset about anything the guy did. No I do not care that he called them names and hurt their feeling. For all I care he could of talked trash about their mom and it would be OK me. In fact I hope he hurt their feelings. I do not care that he stuck an American made AR in their foreign invading faces hope they did not like that either.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

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  13. #43
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    All this is pretty disturbing to me...

    The government, legislators and their sympathizers keep pushing ordinary law abiding citizens into circumstances that eventually causes one to get jammed up in a litigation scenario and then they get hammered in court.

    Why are we even allowing illegal aliens the right to sue U.S. property owners for defending their property from invasion, vandalism and the promotion of criminal activity.

    They break the law, vandalize property, damage or kill livestock, tear down fences and then are granted immunity and given payola to testify against a U.S. Citizen or granted the right to sue a U.S. Citizen is ridiculous.

    A lone 60 yr old rancher stumbles into a group of 12-20 young illegals on his property... how is that not a threat to the rancher?

    How many of them are armed with even an improvised weapon? Who is the dangerous smuggler in the group leading the way through your property?

    My nephew is a Border Patrol Agent who spent 5 years on the Mexican border in Naco Az. before transferring to the northern border has had many discussions with me on the topic of the border incursions and it is a dangerous situation for all involved.

    It is no less dangerous for the U.S. property owners and ranchers as it is for the law enforcement officers who patrol it.

    The government should be providing relief and assistance to the property owners instead of allowing them to be sued in court by illegals invading our country.

    I am totally on the side of the ranchers and property owners who are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    There is a simmering cauldron of rage building up in the country by the citizens and one day it will either boil over or we'll roll over and succumb to the left wing socialists. One or the other.

    My personal hopes is that we don't die a slow death like Canada, Great Britain and Australia.

    When the government came for their guns, they screamed and hollered a lot, but in the end, they just rolled over and gave up the guns.

    Not a good pattern I'm seeing develop.
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  14. #44
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    The penalty is ridiculous.
    The fact that ANY illegal alien even has a say in this country is ridiculous.
    The fact that ANY illegal alien can SUE a property owner is ridiculous.
    When ANY illegal alien even shows up to file a complaint and it is found that they are not citizens here, they ought to be put on a bus and taken back to the border.

    Lets turn it around and try that stunt in Mexico and see what happens.Oh wait, we woudn't ever know cause illegal aliens there that are caught would be in some dungeon for a few years.
    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    This country really has gone to hell. It's only a matter of time before we have to take it back from the leftist idiots and make this country great and safe again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    A lone 60 yr old rancher stumbles into a group of 12-20 young illegals on his property... how is that not a threat to the rancher?
    ...

    It is no less dangerous for the U.S. property owners and ranchers as it is for the law enforcement officers who patrol it.

    ...

    There is a simmering cauldron of rage building up in the country by the citizens and one day it will either boil over or we'll roll over and succumb to the left wing socialists. One or the other.

    My personal hopes is that we don't die a slow death like Canada, Great Britain and Australia.

    When the government came for their guns, they screamed and hollered a lot, but in the end, they just rolled over and gave up the guns.
    Agreed very much so.

    My stomach is turning also.

    So someone is upset with the language the rancher used? Who gives a flying truck what he said? Overlooking an invasion to focus on some words, and the fact that he held someone until the authorities could arrive to detain them? He only took action because the government wouldn't.

    If I knew the rancher's address, I'd write him a check right now.

  15. #45
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    This is cowpatties I saw this guy on Glenn Beck.
    We are all about as fed up as we can get. Time to start a Change.
    Last edited by Miggy; February 22nd, 2009 at 12:19 AM. Reason: language workaround

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