U.S. jury finds rancher liable in vigilante trial - Page 7

U.S. jury finds rancher liable in vigilante trial

This is a discussion on U.S. jury finds rancher liable in vigilante trial within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by matiki I have read the eight counts that the Jury unanimously ruled against Barnett on and it looks like there are $40,000 ...

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  1. #91
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    I have read the eight counts that the Jury unanimously ruled against Barnett on and it looks like there are $40,000 in punitive damages, so $38,000 would stick even if this law gets the punitive damages set aside. The punitive damages are two awards of $20,000 each for emotional distress.



    Well I certainly hope you are right about the legal fees. As far as all the substantive cases being dismissed, I guess that's a matter of opinion. He was unanimously found at fault for four counts of assault.



    I think this is misunderstood. Barnett can spend as much as he wants, but that doesn't mean the other side has to pay it. The standard of reasonableness still applies.



    I don't think they see it as a total loss. I'm happy you're happy though.

    As I posted earlier, Barnett won on every substantive claim that he was being sued for and he is now eligible to make application to the court to force Maldef to pay his legal fees.

    I doubt Maldef will contest the appeal because they were embarassed in court.

    As for the $78,000 awarded to four "victims" for their emotional distress, they will never receive a dime. A 2006 Arizona constitutional amendment bars awards of punitive damages to illegal aliens.

    Plus, all of the illegals will be deported.

    In fact, Barnett should counter sue for the emotional stress these illegals have brought upon him.
    Last edited by HotGuns; February 24th, 2009 at 10:16 PM. Reason: thread cleanup
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill


  2. #92
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    How often does that ever get used? Every illegal that I put in jail either someone came and got or they were just let go. I am not aware of any ever going to trial.
    Heck, if they did, thats all the courts would be doing.
    Prosecution for illegal re-entry happens all the time.

    You should sit in on a hearing in Immigration Court.

    In the town where you work, when you arrest someone, are you allowed to ask a person's immigration status?

    Are you allowed to contact I.C.E.?

    If you noticed from the first article I posted:

    One of the 16 illegal immigrants allowed to bring the lawsuit is a convicted felon deported from the U.S. after a 1993 arrest on federal drug charges, court records show. Gerardo Gonzalez, 38, was convicted in September 1993 of possession of a controlled substance for sale and ordered deported to his home country.

    In a March 2007 deposition, Border Patrol agent Manuel Rodriquez said agents ran a records check of those detained on the Barnett ranch in the 2004 incident and found that other members of the party had made prior attempts at illegal entry.

    These illegals that were caught by Mr. Barnett have committed felonies.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

  3. #93
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    In the town where you work, when you arrest someone, are you allowed to ask a person's immigration status?
    Yep. Are there places where you aren't? It usually isn't too hard to figure.

    Are you allowed to contact I.C.E.?
    Yep. But unless we have at least 2 dozen of them they wont come get them.

    These illegals that were caught by Mr. Barnett have committed felonies
    No surprise there. One of the ones I got at a park here was wanted on murder charges.He was important enough that the U.S. Marshals came and got him.He was also a member of MS-13, that was actually the first one I had ever encountered.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  4. #94
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    As I posted earlier, Barnett won on every substantive claim that he was being sued for and he is now eligible to make application to the court to force Maldef to pay his legal fees.

    I doubt Maldef will contest the appeal because they were embarassed in court.

    As for the $78,000 awarded to four "victims" for their emotional distress, they will never receive a dime. A 2006 Arizona constitutional amendment bars awards of punitive damages to illegal aliens.
    Again, while I hope you're right, $38,000 was not punitive, and some of it ($2800) was from being found guilty of assault. I'm not convinced he won't end up paying something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    Plus, all of the illegals will be deported.

    In fact, Barnett should counter sue for the emotional stress these illegals have brought upon him.
    I'm glad they'll be deported, I'm upset they haven't all been charged with crimes.

    In my opinion, looking at this case as a win for folks that want to stop illegal immigration (which includes me believe it or not) will actually set back our cause. The law needs to be changed and public outcry is usually the best method for quick change (take a look at the no-chimps as pets bill that just passed the house).

    As I read through the case, especially the jury instructions, in my opinion Barnett benefited from jury nullification. They rejected his self defense claim, and yet dismissed the bulk of the charges (we'll have to agree to disagree about what 'substantive' means, but I will conceded that most charges were dismissed).

    I certainly don't agree with the way he appears to conduct himself, based on the cases that he's been involved in (including the hunters he held at gun point), but I do want him to be able to do something to stop illegal immigrants, short of having to go around and rustle them up himself.

    AZ (and probably the other border states) need their citizens to get upset enough to fix it.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  5. #95
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Yep. Are there places where you aren't? It usually isn't too hard to figure.



    Yep. But unless we have at least 2 dozen of them they wont come get them.



    No surprise there. One of the ones I got at a park here was wanted on murder charges.He was important enough that the U.S. Marshals came and got him.He was also a member of MS-13, that was actually the first one I had ever encountered.
    Some cities are sanctuary cities and they protect illegals...usually the big cities like L.A., NY, etc. Cops are not allowed to ask the immigration status of detainees. Tom Fitton, President of Judicial Watch, is challenging the sanctuary laws in court.

    US Marshalls and ICE often work in conjunction with local PD's... they have to deconflict during investigations.

    The guy you arrested that is a member of MS-13 is probably an El Salvadoran, and more than likely is an illegal.

    The problem with ICE is manpower. They are simply outnumbered by criminal aliens. So, they have to go after the worst offenders first, i.e. egregious public safety risks, CIMT's, drug dealers, and so on.

    It's not necessarily the number of detainees in your jail, H.G., it's the type of offense the detainee committed.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

  6. #96
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    I seriously doubt the illegal aliens will ever receive one penny of the $78,000.

    And the biggest kicker:

    4. Maldef not only lost the case, but now they are losing money. Their reputation has been tarnished. They are wishing they had never sued Mr. Barnett in the first place.

    That is such good news. Thanks Patti! I hope the tide is turning.




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  7. #97
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    Some cities are sanctuary cities and they protect illegals...usually the big cities like L.A., NY, etc. Cops are not allowed to ask the immigration status of detainees. Tom Fitton, President of Judicial Watch, is challenging the sanctuary laws in court.
    Are you serious? You're telling me that its illegal to ask an illegal of his illegal residency here in the states?
    We really are going to hell in a hand basket...

    The guy you arrested that is a member of MS-13 is probably an El Salvadoran, and more than likely is an illegal.
    Actually an ex military illegal from there.

    It's not necessarily the number of detainees in your jail, H.G., it's the type of offense the detainee committed.
    Yeah. I understand its a priority thing. That dont make it any better though.And it really is a matter of Defense. How many of these yahoos that are doing a "soft" invasion are here to raise hell when things get tough?
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  8. #98
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Are you serious? You're telling me that its illegal to ask an illegal of his illegal residency here in the states?
    We really are going to hell in a hand basket...
    Seattle is one of them. I had an illegal alien total both my cars when he fell asleep at the wheel and crashed into them (they were parked on the street). The Police dutifully completed the accident report. Juan Gonzales, no drivers license, no identification, no arrest. Needless to say, my insurance company footed the bill. Not that I think he'd have had any money or insurance anyways, but it would have been nice to see him prosecuted for something.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  9. #99
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    That avatar I posted becomes more real with each passing day...
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  10. #100
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Are you serious? You're telling me that its illegal to ask an illegal of his illegal residency here in the states?
    We really are going to hell in a hand basket...
    Here's an example of a sanctuary city. Judicial Watch (David Klehm) won this case in court.

    California Appellate Court Rules Against San Francisco Sanctuary Policy | Judicial Watch

    California Appellate Court Rules Against San Francisco Sanctuary Policy
    Contact Information:
    Press Office 202-646-5172, ext 305

    Washington, DC -- October 23, 2008
    City Must Follow State Law Requiring Police Officers to Report Suspected Aliens Arrested on Drug Charges to Feds

    Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption, announced today that the First District Court of Appeal for the State of California has ruled in a Judicial Watch taxpayer lawsuit that the San Francisco Police Department must comply with a state law requiring police officers to notify federal authorities when they arrest a person for various narcotics offenses whom they suspect to be an alien, legal or illegal [Fonseca v. Fong, Case No. A120206].

    The appellate court reversed a lower court ruling that the SFPD was not required to obey the law because the law in question, Section 11369 of the California Health and Safety Code, invaded the federal government's exclusive power to regulate immigration. Rejecting this argument, the appellate court remanded the case back to the trial court to determine if the SFPD's policies comply with Section 11369. According to the appellate court ruling issued on October 22, 2008:

    ...Section 11369 does not require any state or local law enforcement agency to independently determine whether an arrestee is a citizen of the United States, let alone whether he or she is present in the United States lawfully or unlawfully. Nor does the statute create or authorize the creation of independent criteria by which to classify individuals based on immigration status... All of those determinations, as well as the duty to tell an arrestee who may be in this country unlawfully to either obtain legal status or leave, are left entirely to federal immigration authorities...the statute is therefore not an impermissible state regulation of immigration.

    As a result of the appellate ruling, San Francisco must now end its sanctuary policy that protects aliens arrested for certain drug offenses from being reported to ICE.

    Judicial Watch's co-counsel, who initiated the case in the trial court, is California attorney David Klehm, who has over 20 years of civil litigation and judge and jury trial experience throughout Southern California.

    Section 11369 of the Health and Safety Code (Section 11369) states: "[w]hen there is reason to believe that any person arrested for a violation [of any of 14 specified drug offenses] may not be a citizen of the United States, the arresting agency shall notify the appropriate agency of the United States having charge of deportation matters." However, as Judicial Watch argued on behalf of San Francisco resident, Charles Fonseca, the SFPD prohibited police officers from complying with this law. As evidence of the SFPD's illegal behavior, Judicial Watch quoted a statement from the San Francisco Field Office of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) that noted a "bare minimum of cooperation" between administrators of the San Francisco County Jail and ICE.

    "This landmark ruling strikes at the heart of the sanctuary movement for illegal aliens. San Francisco and other sanctuary cities are not above the law. This court ruling exposes the lie behind the argument that state and local law enforcement cannot help enforce immigration laws," said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Are you serious? You're telling me that its illegal to ask an illegal of his illegal residency here in the states?
    We really are going to hell in a hand basket...
    It's worst than that Matki I am sure can confirm that on at least two separate occasions Washington State governors have publicly and openly appealed to illegal immigrants nation wide to come to Washington to receive amnesty. Not sure if they offered green cards to any illegals once they came to Washington but it was clear that Washington state would protect them from any and all efforts to deport them, if they would come to work harvesting crops.
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

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  12. #102
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    I have said it before and will say it again. The problem is not illegal immigrants it's all of our freebies. Not just welfare, but health and education as well.

    On the one hand we are telling people, don't come here without getting permission. But if you do, we'll take care of any urgent medical needs you have, give instruction to your children (in their native language no less!) and we'll make sure you have enough money to eat. No matter what way you look at it, it's a better deal than is available in their home country.

    No law can overturn the laws of economics. People respond to incentives. What incentives do they have to stay put?

    We can piss and moan all we want about the fact that what they are doing is illegal, but until we come to terms with the Unintended Consequences of our many socialist enterprises, nothing is going to change.

    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

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    Yeah there is a big deal up here in Washington right now about a illegal immigrants raid calling it against their civil rights... I still am not getting this whole you here ILLEGALLY so what civil rights are we talking about?

    In California when they were having the protests against ICE I just could not figure out why they did not have buses lined up and asking for green cards, no right to be here get on the bus... We all are an immigrant at some point in our family history but most families went through the trouble of coming to this country in a legal manner way back in history.

    I don't have a problem looking for a better life if they go through the process but I am SICK of the money that I work for paying for those that do not, and then Iam the bad guy because I do not support them. When I was unemployed I did not even qualify to get my own money in the health care system but the other illegals in front of me in line were handed it every last one of them. People wonder why some Americans are becoming angry at these matters gee I wonder.

    I am glad this guy got off and if I lived closer I would thank him for his efforts...

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongRider View Post
    It's worst than that Matki I am sure can confirm that on at least two separate occasions Washington State governors have publicly and openly appealed to illegal immigrants nation wide to come to Washington to receive amnesty. Not sure if they offered green cards to any illegals once they came to Washington but it was clear that Washington state would protect them from any and all efforts to deport them, if they would come to work harvesting crops.
    I must have missed that (I certainly believe they would have though).

    I do know that illegal aliens that meet residency requirements get resident tuition rates at state schools (which means taxpayers foot some of the difference). Oh... and our lawmakers just reversed course on childrens healthcare: status no longer affects ability to receive State paid for non-emergency healthcare.

    But we have had some recent victories...

    Let me see... they're around here somewhere...

    Shoot....

    I can't seem to find 'em...
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    Quote Originally Posted by socal2310 View Post
    until we come to terms with the Unintended Consequences of our many socialist enterprises, nothing is going to change.
    Dead on the money. That is exactly what I have been saying for years

    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    But we have had some recent victories...
    Let me see... they're around here somewhere...
    Shoot....
    I can't seem to find 'em...
    pretty much covers it, doesn't it
    Abort the Obamanation not the Constitution

    Those who would, deny, require permit, license, certification, or authorization for me to bear arms are as vile, dangerous & evil as those who would molest, abuse, assault, rape or murder my family

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