February 28th, 2009 10:29 AM
I wonder if they really were ambushed. I see so many people who aren't alert enough to pick up obvious signs of danger.
Originally Posted by Gardien
The old "they came out of nowhere" argument. Most of the time, if they just paid attention, they could turn around or cross the street.
But I agree that if the bad guys were so stealthy that a reasonably alert person couldn't see them, they could be toast.
fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).
February 28th, 2009 10:49 AM
Yup and turn on the lights to better see the target
Originally Posted by retsupt99
Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.
February 28th, 2009 11:25 AM
How about 3 against 2?
Originally Posted by Gardien
Mr. and Mrs. Clueless could have both been aware, armed and trained.
I suspect beating feet would have been the next sound heard on this street.
They are blessed to be alive.
I wouldn't count on a porch light for protection, if I were these citizens.
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
February 28th, 2009 11:39 AM
You are not going to believe this, but a few months ago I opened my front door one morning to get the paper and found a note stuck in my front door, the note advised me that the writer had noticed that they regularly observed that I left my front porch light on at night and that this was not very "green'. I can only guess what my anonymous green neighbor would say about my other defensive measures
The irony here is that this note appeared about 1 month after someone tried to break into my garage. I live in Mclean Virginia, about 10 miles from Old Town.
I was out of town at the time of the attempted break in. My wife heard the sound of the gate across our driveway scraping on the ground at about 3 AM. She looked out the window and saw three guys trying to lift up my garage door - with no success because it was locked -but the three of them were noisily and brazenly jumping up and down trying to get it open. They had set off the motion detectors on my outside lights and were illuminated as if they were in daylight but, of course, that still did not deter them.
My wife went back to the bedroom, locked herself in, took my USP out of the nightstand and called 911. Two Fairfax County police cars responded without lights or sirens within a few minutes, but the BG's saw them approaching and took off through the gate that connects my backyard to my neighbor's backyard. The BG's got away and the cops told my wife that they had broken into 4 other garages within a two block radius that night.
So much for the deterrent effect of light. Not only that, but so much for the deterrent effect of police. I live near the CIA, as well as the houses of two Supreme Court Justices, Dick Cheney and many other VIP's whose presence results in fairly intense patrols by a variety of local and Federal LEO's in the neighborhood.
It's a pity my green neighbor was not there to see the BG's setting off the motion lights so he could tell them that they were wasting energy
February 28th, 2009 04:37 PM
Yes indeed. I have lived in Alexandria and worked down in Old Town over 15 years ago, and I remember, one always had to be careful at night, regardless of what part of town you were in. Some areas were much more, shall we say interesting, than others.
Originally Posted by DaveH
It is ironic, after all, that this is the same community (Alexandria) that used to make it next to impossible to get a CCW. The same community that imposed a manditory waiting period on gun purchases. The same community that ran background checks and would deny a person if the APD guy in charge even thought you resembled a criminal in name, or other particulars.
Alexandria, might look pretty at night, and may have some really nice real estate, but it also has more than its share of criminal elements in many parts of the city.
February 28th, 2009 04:39 PM
Porch lights... LOL thats just crazy talk.
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February 28th, 2009 07:46 PM
The "light" these BGs should be see is the flash that comes before the bang out of the barrel.
February 28th, 2009 08:11 PM
i never leave the porch light on. kinda effects night vision imo.
my wife always turns it on and then i turn it right back off.
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March 1st, 2009 12:49 AM
You are thinking, that a CCW holder that "SHOULD TRAIN" with their gun can not shoot better than 3 thugs who more than likely stole their guns right?
Originally Posted by ErikGr7
The article said that the thugs climbed a wall then came to the lady. Would you as a trained CCW holder allow 3 thugs that by the sound of the article don't belong in the neighborhood get close to your lady friend?
Different states I guess have different laws, but I am guessing that most here, would not have allowed this to happen.
If you "stop" one of the cockroach's the other 2 will more than likely boogie, if not thats what you train for, right?
March 1st, 2009 06:36 PM
My outside lights are turned on by heat & motion detection. They are set so an animal can't set them off. They go on whether I'm there or not. So, if I come home .... and one of the lights are on... it causes me some "caution"> If they aren't and I start to walk up, they turn on . I've been surprised when I saw someone 'lurking' outside and start to approach and the light kicked on... and they stopped and left quickly.
I can tell from inside the house if any of the lights are on.... if I see the light, and the dog is growling..... I know someone's there and my dog doesn't like them (lol).
March 4th, 2009 05:14 PM
That's why Situational Awarness is so important... armed or not. Also if lights are on outside, at lest the criminals would be easer to see for the those living across the street, who could alert police... Criminals would rather not be seen.
Originally Posted by ErikGr7
Also, bef i leave home I always leave indoor lights on and the radio on loud enough to be heard at the door... to simulate that someone is home.
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March 4th, 2009 10:52 PM
Since they were not carrying defense guns, we really can not even begin to say how that would have changed the equation since it didn't play out that way.
Originally Posted by ErikGr7
However, I do believe that once people start to carry guns for defense, for the most part, they do in fact also increase their situational awareness levels from before.
Having noticed something awry allowing time to react may have changed the entire situation.
Now, certainly even if you do not carry a gun, you should utilize good situational awareness, but in practice and in reality, it just doesn't happen that way.
Sheep are sheep and often times remain sheep their entire lives.
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March 13th, 2009 07:39 PM
I think this would be a pretty good passive deterrent to anyone pondering whether or not to come into my house. Gotta love the castle law in AZ.
March 13th, 2009 08:13 PM
Lighting can help certain situations be a bit less risky, but lights aren't pixie dust. They hold no magic power to stop a determined rapist, armed robber or murderer.
"You can help that situation by turning your porch light on," said Hooper, who oversees policing in Old Town.
"Amen," said a woman in the front row.
But then, in this situation where two people are attacked by a coordinated group of three people who each are armed with guns, it's going to be difficult to come out alive if one mistake is made. In this particular situation, I can't see myself doing anything differently: play the possum, toss a wallet, and be on the watch for a break. (If there were one attacker and I were with one or more people, that break would likely come. With three attackers who are all armed, it's darned unlikely, unless force is met at the outset with violent refusal to be a victim.)
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the number of victims?
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