'Say please' at U. S. border nets pepper spray

This is a discussion on 'Say please' at U. S. border nets pepper spray within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; He's got a point about pointless rudeness. Everyone has a reasonable expectation of not being mistreated. Still, agreed: pick your battles wisely, else your battles ...

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Thread: 'Say please' at U. S. border nets pepper spray

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    He's got a point about pointless rudeness. Everyone has a reasonable expectation of not being mistreated. Still, agreed: pick your battles wisely, else your battles get picked for you.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  3. #17
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    Stern, to the point and professional should not be confused with being rude.

    The guy who got sprayed was an idiot. He has no more idea what a border agents job is, or the responsibility he has. Nor would he probably understand if it was spelled out to him.

    The border agent has a job to protect our border, he is not a store clerk trying to make a sale.

    It also appears he did not act outside his agencies SOP in the least either.

    If you don't know how to interact with an authority figure without making petty demands for courtesy, you too may meet with an unpleasant experience.

    Just my two cents... YMMV
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    I am left wondering what threatening moves did he make that necessitated pepper spray? Take worst case scenario...a car bomb. Likely or unlikely...tough call. But doubt a BG would of made a scene...especially over politeness. Sooooo...could of opened the door and turned the car off.

    Rick

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array glock27mark's Avatar
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    i've only been to canada once since 9/11. imo just too my b.s. for me. after
    a night in windsor visited a casino. the b.p. agent asked me to open the trunk
    of our car which we did, the wife and i were about as polite as one could be.
    while he was going thought items in the trunk,by the sound of it,this moron
    was throwing things all over the place. no need for that. did'nt say a word since he seems to be looking for anything to bust someone with. now with all the
    issuses that happen at border crossing and the so-called tough job they have
    not one bit of respect to thier get from me. i'd just like to know what force
    gives them the right to miss treat people the way they do. everyone is guilty
    until proven innocent. if these guys are really on theball,way are things so screwed up at border crossing. thats my story and i'm sticking to it.
    (SHERIFF BUFORD T. JUSTICE) "what the hell is
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I agree that this fellow picked a battle that he couldn't win at the moment. Thats no to say he won't win in a civil suit.

    All that aside most all officers that I come in contact with are very curtious. They put up with crap that most ordinary citizens wouldn't believe. No they are not greeters in a store, they are well trained individuals who know how to interact with the public.
    If this account is accurate the officer involved did not fall back on his training. He let all the good officers down. The way people see him from now on is going to affect the way they see all law enforcement officers.

    Michael

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Everytime I've crossed the Border I've never had any problem,they are doing their job,they are not there to make friends,they are looking for people trying to sneak into the US to do harm or smuggle illegal Items in.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  8. #22
    Member Array Leopard125's Avatar
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    Funny how on the north side we expect courtesy,from our agents
    And full on force at the southern side.

    That being said courtesy from both agent and traveler would go a long way.

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Now if I was a Border Patrol Officer...I would have said:
    "I shared my pepper spray with you and you didn't say...Thank You!"

    Nice line........
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Stern, to the point and professional should not be confused with being rude.

    The guy who got sprayed was an idiot. He has no more idea what a border agents job is, or the responsibility he has. Nor would he probably understand if it was spelled out to him.

    The border agent has a job to protect our border, he is not a store clerk trying to make a sale.

    It also appears he did not act outside his agencies SOP in the least either.

    If you don't know how to interact with an authority figure without making petty demands for courtesy, you too may meet with an unpleasant experience.
    I agree completely....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  11. #25
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    Coming from Argentina with ALL our documents in order (with our brand new U S A passports ) we got retained at the Miami Airport by an Agent . After more than 1 hour , they wanted me to tell them where had they filed my daugther's residency card. The are rude, uneducated and "powerful", until you ask them to call your lawyer which happens to be a very well known one!!
    I believe if you are polite it does go a long way, they dont need to be submisive, or corteous, just respectful, we do get a great deal of money from tourism, which keeps many jobs open for our residents. Keep the bad away, receive the good ones with a courteous line, no more than that
    'Men have forgotten this truth... But you must not forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.' Antoine de Saint Exupery

  12. #26
    Member Array Cuttin Edge's Avatar
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    I live on the road - traveling the world - so I get to cross the boarder many a times. I always laugh at the sign as you come through "Face of Our Nation" above the customs area at airports... If I wasn't from here - I would turn around if I see how grumpy these people are - and this is the face of our nation! How hard is it to give a little cheer and be polite!

    I go to Canada quite often (opposite of miklcolt45 - I have a house in canada - and live in the US). Usually Canadian side is nice - sometimes a few extra questions. But coming back to US - it's just amazing how rude they are - and I am a US Citizen!

  13. #27
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    I've been over the US/Canadian border, back and forth through Border Patrol and Customs in Puerto Rico, Orlando, and NYC several times. Each time, the agents have been stern and focused, but never rude. Living in the South, if you don't say 'please' and 'thank you', you're automatically being rude. No one ever thinks that these people may just be trained to be focused on the job at hand and not distracted by having personal conversations with the people and situations they're supposed to be evaluating.

    If the guy got pulled over by the police and was asked for his license, is he going to demand the officer say please before presenting the license?

    That guy demanding the BP agent say please is an idiot and he got what he deserved.

  14. #28
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    I would also like to point out, that once you start to abide by peoples demands for being "courteous" and saying... "Mother may I" or "Please, would you" and things like that.... Then you start to have problems with people getting confused about what is or isn't a "lawful command" being given and what is just a "friendly request."

    The Border Agents who control access across the border is in charge and in control. Not the other way around! You do not allow a citizen to dictate how you are going to perform your job or what tone of voice to use when giving a lawful order/command. It's called a Command for a reason.

    I stand by my first post. The driver who got sprayed was an Idiot!

    Border Agent = 1
    Idiot = 0
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuttin Edge View Post
    I live on the road - traveling the world - so I get to cross the boarder many a times. I always laugh at the sign as you come through "Face of Our Nation" above the customs area at airports... If I wasn't from here - I would turn around if I see how grumpy these people are - and this is the face of our nation! How hard is it to give a little cheer and be polite!

    I go to Canada quite often (opposite of miklcolt45 - I have a house in canada - and live in the US). Usually Canadian side is nice - sometimes a few extra questions. But coming back to US - it's just amazing how rude they are - and I am a US Citizen!

    I think you must have me confused with someone else who posted they live in Canada and have a house in the U.S.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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  16. #30
    Member Array rlsmaritime's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Before I retired, I travelled extensively overseas. The only immigration/customs people more rude and confrontational than the US folks are (maybe) the Venezuelans. Regardless of how polte and courteous travelers may be, the US border folks (in general; there are some real exceptions) seem want to play the role of a pr--k.

    Nowhere is the contrast more stark than on our northern border. The Canadian people are friendly and courteous, and engage you in conversation to get the information they need. And believe me, it is a lot easier to find inconsistencies in someone's story when they are at ease and relaxed. Some of the folks at the Lewiston crossing (coming back into the US) are extraordinarily poor representatives of our country. As a returning US citizen, retired military, and someone who always tries to be impeccably polite and helpful, I am disappointed at the challenging (rude) conduct of of these folks simply because "they can". I understand they have a difficult job to do, but creating a hostile interaction from the get-to seems unwarranted.

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