Ugly: 12 year old shoots friend.

This is a discussion on Ugly: 12 year old shoots friend. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Whatever the circumstances this is bad. It's hard to say what's worse for gunowners: parents who failed to instruct their son in respect for firearms ...

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Thread: Ugly: 12 year old shoots friend.

  1. #1
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Ugly: 12 year old shoots friend.

    Whatever the circumstances this is bad. It's hard to say what's worse for gunowners: parents who failed to instruct their son in respect for firearms or a kid who deliberately killed a friend. It sounds like he accidentally shot his friend and then lied about it and the police arrested him until they could determine why he lied.

    Boy, 12, fatally shot by friend, police say


    5:58 PM | March 7, 2009

    A 12-year old Beaumont boy was shot dead by his friend Thursday morning in a home with several loaded weapons and no parents, officials said today.

    The suspect in the shooting, another 12-year-old boy, was arrested and booked into Riverside Juvenile Hall on murder charges. The alleged shooter's parents, Patricia Willis, 33, and Christopher Willis, 48, were arrested on charges of negligent storage of firearms and child endangerment.

    "We're still trying to figure out if this was accidental or on purpose," said Beaumont police spokeswoman Darci Carranza, who would not release the identity of either boy.

    About 10:40 a.m. Thursday the suspect called 911 and said he had heard a gunshot and that his friend was injured, Carranza said. Police arrived at the house on the 100 block of Helen Avenue a short time later and found the friend lifeless with an apparent gunshot wound.

    The two boys were alone in the home on a school day while both parents were at work, police determined. A search of the house found several unsecured firearms, both loaded and unloaded.

    Police are still investigating the cause of the shooting. Both parents were released Friday on $15,000 bail.

    "You have two families whose lives have been destroyed," Carranza said.
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    California's statutes related to these situations are stiff. Beyond the loss, all of them are going to have a rough legal time ahead.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    It's a tragedy! And the parents are going to have to be accountable for their neglect.
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Sounds pretty bad for all, I'm sure the parents of the shooter will be charged criminally being the guns were unsecured and some were loaded. I'm sure you will, but please update us as you here more. Thanks.
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Negligence and child endangerment.
    Regardless of 'training'....Ehh I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over and over and over and...

    I'm sick of seeing these type stories, weekly.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Negligence and child endangerment.
    Regardless of 'training'....Ehh I'm tired of saying the same thing over and over and over and over and...

    I'm sick of seeing these type stories, weekly.

    - Janq
    Hummmm....I think I said the same thing awhile back.

    Rick

  8. #7
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Twelve Year Old Beaumont Shooting Victim Identified

    Pertinent section of California Penal Code below the article.


    BEAUMONT - The county coroner has identified 12-year old Moises Gonzalez of Beaumont as the victim in the shooting

    By Emilie Voss
    News Channel 3

    "It's a quiet neighborhood," Beaumont resident Jodi Fisher observed a day after gunshots rang out on Helen Avenue.

    Police received a 911 call from a 12-year-old in a home on Helen Avenue around 10:40 a.m. Thursday who said he heard a gunshot and that his friend was injured.

    Police arrived on scene moments later and discovered that friend dead.

    The boy who made the 911 call was arrested on suspicion of murder and booked into the Riverside Juvenile Hall, police said.

    Just 24 hours after the incident, neighbors are still talking about what happened.

    "It was all taped off," Fisher described the chaotic moments from Thursday morning. "The cars were over there -- a big CSI crime scene investigating van, a forensics team. They had the whole scene blocked off."

    "The question I have is why were two kids home alone?" another neighbor Derek Kurkowski noted.

    Nadia Arriaza lives down the street. Her son goes to school with both boys and neither of them showed up for class Thursday. Arriaza says she thought she heard two shots.

    "I heard gunshots but I said, 'No way,'" said Arriaza. "I kept cleaning and cleaning. And when I got downstairs, the ambulance was in front of my house."

    Neighbors say after investigators arrived on scene, they went door-to-door asking if anyone saw or heard anything.

    "They just wanted to search my backyard and make sure the weapon wasn't thrown over the fence which was okay with me because I have kids who play back there," said Fisher.

    Neighbors say the family moved to the neighborhood about a year ago and there's more than one child living at the home.

    Police arrested the suspect boy's parents, Christopher and Patricia Willis, on charges of child endangerment and negligent storage of firearms.

    Beaumont Police say they found several loaded and unloaded guns around the Willis' home.

    At this point the investigation is continuing and police won't say if it was an accident or not.

    The family of the killed 12-year-old is looking to the community to help raise money to pay for the boy's funeral.

    To find out how you can help, call 951-769-6478. An account has also been setup at Wells Fargo: Account #9422619198.
    CPC 12035.(b) (1) Except as provided in subdivision (c), a
    person commits the crime of "criminal storage of a firearm of the first
    degree" if he or she keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that
    are under his or her custody or control and he or she knows or
    reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to the
    firearm without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian
    and the child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes death or
    great bodily injury to himself, herself, or any other person.
    (2) Except as provided in subdivision (c), a person commits the
    crime of "criminal storage of a firearm of the second degree" if he
    or she keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under
    his or her custody or control and he or she knows or reasonably
    should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm
    without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian and
    the child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes injury,
    other than great bodily injury, to himself, herself, or any other
    person, or carries the firearm either to a public place or in
    violation of Section 417.
    (c) Subdivision (b) shall not apply whenever any of the following
    occurs:
    (1) The child obtains the firearm as a result of an illegal entry
    to any premises by any person.
    (2) The firearm is kept in a locked container or in a location
    that a reasonable person would believe to be secure.
    (3) The firearm is carried on the person or within such a close
    proximity thereto that the individual can readily retrieve and use
    the firearm as if carried on the person.
    (4) The firearm is locked with a locking device that has rendered
    the firearm inoperable.
    (5) The person is a peace officer or a member of the armed forces
    or National Guard and the child obtains the firearm during, or
    incidental to, the performance of the person's duties.
    (6) The child obtains, or obtains and discharges, the firearm in a
    lawful act of self-defense or defense of another person, or persons.
    (7) The person who keeps a loaded firearm on any premise that is
    under his or her custody or control has no reasonable expectation,
    based on objective facts and circumstances, that a child is likely to
    be present on the premises.
    Ryan

    P.S. This charge is a "wobbler" but is very likely to be prosecuted as a felony in this case. Misdemeanor charges are more likely where the injured/killed minor is a child of the person or people in question since the prosecutor is allowed to treat the injury or death of the child as part of the punishment due for violating the law.
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    I bet they will try to use #7 in their defense. The boys were supposed to be at school but never showed up...?
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    And to think that a good safe, used properly, could have easily prevented this needless shooting.

    $1500 for a good safe will seem like peanuts to the bills that are coming...
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  11. #10
    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    And to think that a good safe, used properly, could have easily prevented this needless shooting.

    $1500 for a good safe will seem like peanuts to the bills that are coming...
    Indeed!
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    "The Double Tap Center Mass Boogie. Learn it, know it, love it, shoot it. Good guys should live, bad guys not so much. " - Ted Nugent 09

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    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    And to think that a good safe, used properly, could have easily prevented this needless shooting.

    $1500 for a good safe will seem like peanuts to the bills that are coming...
    Not to mention the fact that $1500 would've been much cheaper than the life of a boy.

    Hell... they could've even used those cheap plastic gun cases from walmart, and just put a padlock through the lock hole, and took the keys with them.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    A tragic incident for sure. I don't see the criminal negligence though. The exact same action on the parent's part would have been legal dozens of times prior to this incident. The state legislature apparently recognized good cause for the parent's action when they wrote the law, ie the self defense of the child exception. The state apparently recognized the child as being responsible for his own actions when they charged him with murder. What was wrong with the parents making the same decision? What would be wrong in making the same decision with a "child" up to one day short of his 18th birthday as defined by this law?

    I see I'm in the minority on this issue as usual. Let me ask this question. What if instead of this tragic story, our OP had been the story of the 12 year old, left home alone, killing a scumbag during an armed home invasion? Would we still be seeing all the calls for criminal negligence charges for the parents or just atta boys for both the kid and the parents?

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Let's also change the story to say that the parents left the child unattended with an unloaded firearm, albeit the loaded magazine was stored right next to the gun. No criminal negligence there if the 12 year old child figured out how to put 2 and 2 together.

  15. #14
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dldeuce View Post
    A tragic incident for sure. I don't see the criminal negligence though. The exact same action on the parent's part would have been legal dozens of times prior to this incident. The state legislature apparently recognized good cause for the parent's action when they wrote the law, ie the self defense of the child exception. The state apparently recognized the child as being responsible for his own actions when they charged him with murder. What was wrong with the parents making the same decision? What would be wrong in making the same decision with a "child" up to one day short of his 18th birthday as defined by this law?

    I see I'm in the minority on this issue as usual. Let me ask this question. What if instead of this tragic story, our OP had been the story of the 12 year old, left home alone, killing a scumbag during an armed home invasion? Would we still be seeing all the calls for criminal negligence charges for the parents or just atta boys for both the kid and the parents?
    The criminal negligence was in leaving a loaded firearm lying around while failing to instruct their son in firearm safety. I'm comfortable with my thirteen year old daughter having access to a loaded firearm, but that's because she has shown that she is responsible and has been taught firearm safety. Bear in mind that as the law is written, the boy and his parents were in compliance with the law up until the instant the gun went off.

    If it is determined that it was not a deliberate act, the charges against the boy will be dropped. If he had been honest with the officers (assuming it was a negligent discharge), it is unlikely he would have been charged with anything in the first place.

    If it was a deliberate act, then I believe the parents are still responsible for failing to raise a child of good moral character and then supplying him with a firearm (if they had raised a snake in the grass and he had obtained the firearm by other means, we wouldn't be having this conversation).

    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal2310 View Post
    If it was a deliberate act, then I believe the parents are still responsible for failing to raise a child of good moral character and then supplying him with a firearm (if they had raised a snake in the grass and he had obtained the firearm by other means, we wouldn't be having this conversation).
    Ryan
    Responsible meaning what? Meaning that they should share some guilty feelings, or that their character perhaps should be tarnished in the community for not quite living up to the hypocritical standard for being a good enough parent? Or did you mean criminally responsible?

    Did you understand the point I was making about how ridiculously unfair these laws are in that there is no criminal negligence if they left a loaded magazine next to the gun, but it's criminal negligence if they left the magazine in the gun? Don't you think a loaded magazine next to the gun is as good as loaded to a twelve year old? One is deemed criminally negligent, but not the other. That's ridiculous.

    In Texas, if a farmer's child does this, there's no criminal negligence. If the welder's child right across the street does it, the parent is a criminal. That's ridiculous.

    It just seems to me to be completely wrong to come back after the fact and find someone criminally negligent for doing something that, at the time, was perfectly legal based upon the actions of a child that by definition, you had no control over at the time of the incident.

    These laws are every bit as offensive to me as the new DC ordinance that won't allow you to register a two-tone model gun, but it will allow you to register the same gun in black. They're just like all the rest of the nonsensical anti-gun laws. In Texas, this law was passed I assume as a political deal the same year the CHL laws were passed in 1995. It doesn't have anything to do with moral right and wrong. It's just one more anti-gun law that can get good parents and law abiding citizens arrested and convicted just for exercising their constitutional right to keep arms.

    It's perfectly legal to leave loaded arms in your home for the self-defense of your children. If it was legal when I left, it ought to be legal when I get home. If it was legal when I did it one day, it ought to be legal when I do it again the next day. Anything else is hardly justice.

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