Poll Should we as CCL holders get involved
This is a discussion on Poll Should we as CCL holders get involved within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I don't understand, where'd we get the 'duty' to defend the life of others? It's my nature to intervene; I'm not sure I could help ...
View Poll Results: Should we as CCL holders get involved
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Should we CCL holders stay seated do nothing and pretend to be a sheep and only act should our own person welfare be challenged
Should we just shoot the BG without notice, and keep shooting him until the threat is over
Should we order the BG to the floor and if they turns or does anything else other than to assume the position, shoot him over and over again, before he gets a chance to fire at us
March 26th, 2009 01:47 PM
I don't understand, where'd we get the 'duty' to defend the life of others? It's my nature to intervene; I'm not sure I could help myself, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do or a good choice. There's lots of things that can go wrong when we start shooting in a public place.
The general response seems to be to assume that everything is going to go our way - we're gonna shoot the BG, we won't miss, he doesn't reflex fire and shoot someone, he doesn't turn and shoot us or someone because we shot him, we don't shoot anyone in the process, he doesn't have a partner that we weren't aware of, and on and on the list goes.
We'd also feel pretty horrible wondering for the rest of your life if the clerk would still be alive if the BG hadn't shot him/her after you shot him, or if the other innocents that got shot would not have been.
I'm too young to be this old!
Getting old isn't good for you!
March 26th, 2009 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by Upland man
Originally Posted by Tangle
Excellent. I couldnt agree more.
March 26th, 2009 04:58 PM
so if this was me would you hold me to the same standard after all I'm a PMY that just wants cash for my sick sister, yeah I shot someone but that was an accident my bad.
Originally Posted by Fenris
so when he finally turns your way you decide to tell him to keep his booger hook of the bang and dont sweep you. thats fine I understand that.
but the rest, oh please listen to yourself, yeah I understand your point, but there are no PMY, they perfectly understand, thats lawyer talk son.
NO 3rd party disputes
The power of imagination is the key to life.
It helps you think ahead, consider the possibilities,and prepare you for the future.
If you lack that ability, you're no different from livestock trapped behind a fence.
March 26th, 2009 05:15 PM
The poll options on this are horribly rigged, like something I would expect from CNN.
Its like a poll asking :
Do you still beat your wife?
March 26th, 2009 05:51 PM
I 100% agree with your relation per the comments of Clint Smith, who BTW is one of my favorite firearms instructors.
He's dead on accurate.
First responsibility goes to ones self, second to ones family,....and The World is far off at third.
People make their choices and if they choose to not take measures to learn how to defend them self then well that's on them, they made their choice.
My only exception to this general rule would be toward a child, although their own parent/guardian is tasked to look out for them not me and mine.
A hard view but it's a hard knock life, so said orphaned Annie.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
March 26th, 2009 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by Janq
It is a hard view, and obviously one that is not understood, and on the surface appears to be a cold and indifferent attitude. I'll readily admit that I'd have a difficult time not intervening in certain situations. And as you mentioned there are some times I would likely intervene. But intervention puts us in a DANGEROUS situation and exposes us and our families to a plethora of undesireable outcomes.
I'm too young to be this old!
Getting old isn't good for you!
March 27th, 2009 12:26 AM
Once his gun comes out and is pointed at someone he is game. I think the key is to act at the right moment, and you won't be able to tell when the right moment is unless you're in the situation.
Maybe, for the good guy, that was the right moment, maybe not. I believe in "combat patience."
Hope he recovers soon.
Duty, Honor, Country...MEDIC
!!!¡Cuánto duele crecer, cuan hondo es el dolor de alzarse en puntillas y observar con temblores de angustia, esa cosa tremenda, que es la vida del hombre! - René Marqués
March 27th, 2009 03:29 AM
You have to think of your family first. Then you have to consider the laws where you are. In some states the law could be a huge deterrent to helping anyone except family.
March 27th, 2009 05:06 AM
I won't say that I will never get involved in a third party situation!
However, I am very much aware that it is extremely easy for a Joe citizen CCW holder to get involved in a "mistaken identity" shooting!
Things would have to be pretty dire and certain if I am going to involve my weapon to intervene in a third party situation.
I also get pretty sick of those who say that "being a good witness" is the same thing as doing nothing. There are plenty of helpful ways to intervene without pulling your gun and start blasting.
And I won't say that I wouldn't do that. It would just have to be a pretty compelling situation for me to get involved to that extent.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
March 27th, 2009 06:28 AM
All three are the 'right answer' for a given, specific situation that requires a prescribed response.
March 27th, 2009 08:47 AM
I started the poll thinking “A” would be my answer. I’d only get involved if the BG turned and headed in my direction. After all, I’m not a LEO and have no responsibility, and no liability insurance, or a Union Attorney should things go sideways and innocent people get shot.
However, knowing my past encounter with BG’s both as an out of uniform LEO and now as a civilian carrying via a CCL, I almost instinctively get involved.
For that reason the other two came to mind, and upon deliberation, I cannot say I would give the BG a chance by ordering him on the ground, or just start shooting him, and continue shooting him until the threat was over.
You also have to realize we do not know all the facts.
We cannot see the BG’s body movements/ language or hear his words. So we have no idea if this is just a “typical robbery, and all he wants is the money and he’ll leave” or this BG is hyped up on PCP, out of his head crazy, thinks nothing of shooting men, woman and children, and is not going to even feel the bullets that hit him.
March 28th, 2009 04:03 PM
After reading the Burger King thread on here, I'm going to say "B." Isn't neutralizing the threat the main priority? Besides, I was told today that "cops really appreciate it when they only have ONE story to deal with."
March 30th, 2009 12:53 AM
I voted for shoot without notice, but it really depends on the situation. Do you have a clear shot, does the guy look like he might actually shoot someone, etc. Also I would give notice at the same time I was shooting him.
After reading some of the thread, I really agree with the comment that all three could be right depending on the situation.
Clint Smith's answer is interesting but with all due respect, it seems too simplistic to me. It is too easy to say I will only take care of me and mine. If its an active shooter, your family isn't there, you have checked your six and you have a clear shot, you then have an opportunity to stop the killing. I hope I would take the shot and keep shooting until the BG is down. On the other hand, its a BK, my family's at the door and can get out without any problem, I take care of my family. Or its a BK, the gunman has his gun pointed at me and is looking at me. I hope I would act like a sheep until his attention is elsewhere because there is no way I am going outdraw him. It good to think about these things ahead of time because I just don't think there is one answer that fits all situations.
With regard to giving notice, if the situation is one in which I am going to draw my gun, I am not going to "play fair".
March 30th, 2009 04:45 PM
AS the saying goes, all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.... If I felt that my life, or another's life, was in danger, I would shoot. No warning - just keep pulling the trigger until the threat is ended.
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