Poll Should we as CCL holders get involved

Poll Should we as CCL holders get involved

This is a discussion on Poll Should we as CCL holders get involved within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Regarding the Miami BK attempted robbery… Running here http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...er-king-5.html Shame the good guy got hurt, and my prayers go out to him. It does bring ...

View Poll Results: Should we as CCL holders get involved

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  • Should we CCL holders stay seated do nothing and pretend to be a sheep and only act should our own person welfare be challenged

    36 24.16%
  • Should we just shoot the BG without notice, and keep shooting him until the threat is over

    74 49.66%
  • Should we order the BG to the floor and if they turns or does anything else other than to assume the position, shoot him over and over again, before he gets a chance to fire at us

    39 26.17%
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Thread: Poll Should we as CCL holders get involved

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Poll Should we as CCL holders get involved

    Regarding the Miami BK attempted robbery…

    Running here
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...er-king-5.html

    Shame the good guy got hurt, and my prayers go out to him.

    It does bring a good question


  2. #2
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    None of the above, we should only act to protect ourselves or others...

    If you have reason to believe that he will take the money and run...let him run!

    If you believe that he is going to leave no witnesses or harm someone then act accordingly to protect them
    A real man loves his wife, and places his family as the most important thing in life. Nothing has brought me more peace and content in life than simply being a good husband and father.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    As is always the case, not enough information to say for sure.
    But, IF the BG is concentrating on the person behind the register, and IF he is not standing there with an accomplice who is also armed (not reported, but don't know for sure), and depending on the distance to the perp (am I in line behind him? or seated at table near furthest exit?), I am quietly drawing my weapon, whispering to wife to head out the nearest exit now. IF the BG then gets threatening/agitated/waving the gun around, I am moving to the most advantageous position for some concealment and a shot without people as my backstop. IF he then looks at me, I will shoot.

    Again, we can't know for sure, but the GG may have been shot because he hesitated. Tough situation. Little detail. Hard call.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
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  4. #4
    Member Array Leopard125's Avatar
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    Someone walks in to a store with a ski mask on and gun in hand,

    "shooter ready" "stand by" BEEP.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Too many variables for one sure answer, but if I was going to act, I would probably not give a warning. That would be dumb.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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  6. #6
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    I agree with Leopard125.....A guy walks in ALREADY wearing a ski mask, holding a weapon so everyone can see......I have to assume he will use it. As soon as I get a clean look......BANG and so on.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Array CR2008's Avatar
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    If a good citizen just watches crime happen and does nothing, ESPECIALLY VIOLENT CRIME, they are not good citizens IMHO but apart of the problem... if I saw someone breating up a 80 year old lady for her wedding ring, should I just watch? That's just SAD.
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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    None of the above are perfect for any and all scenarios. I went with option 2. I am not necessarily going to engage every bad guy I see. But if I do decide to engage it will be without warning. They showed up obviously intending something other than a "fair fight". So I am certainly not going to give them a fair fight.
    It isn't my job to arrest or detain, or really to intervene at all. But if the circumstances are such that I believe an innocent life will be taken if I refuse to act, when I feel I have the opportunity, I will stop the threat.
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  9. #9
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    I wanted to check the frist two responses.
    I pretty much want to mind my own business. I'm not a cop, nor a super hero. I'm not looking for the bad guys to stop.

    However, if I felt that my life could be in jeopardy, I'd quickly take out the BG before he even knew I was there...no sense in being fair about it.

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  10. #10
    Member Array Upland man's Avatar
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    From my study into this it seems that you have to at least tell him to put his hands above his head or you will shoot. If you just shoot the liability is to great. If he has his gun on the clerk your shot could make him clinch and shoot that person. In the position that we are assuming the GG is in I would position myself with some space between the BG and myself. With weapon drawn and sight square on his vitals I would yell for him to put hands in the air or I will shoot. If he turned to me at all or did not comply it would be a split second reaction for me to respond with force.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Dal1Celt's Avatar
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    I think as long as it stays just a robbery, BE A GOOD WITNESS!!

    If it turns violent, then by all means "Ready on the right? the right is ready. Ready on the Left, the left is ready, fire's take your saftey off and scan your sector!"
    "Without fear there can be no Courage!"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CR2008 View Post
    If a good citizen just watches crime happen and does nothing, ESPECIALLY VIOLENT CRIME, they are not good citizens IMHO but apart of the problem... if I saw someone breating up a 80 year old lady for her wedding ring, should I just watch? That's just SAD.
    That's only when you KNOW it's a crime. What if you see exactly what you described, except I don't know how you'd know it's an 80 year old woman, and you shoot the guy, and the 'guy' turns out to be an undercover officer trying to arrest a violent criminal disguised as an 80 year old woman as part of his 'get close' tactic.

    The point is, what we see is not always what we think it is and intervention is full of caveats that can quickly come back to haunt us.

    Take for example a husband beating a wife. You intervene, likely save the wife's life by shooting the husband, but when the cops arrive the wife claims they were just having a heated discussion and you butted in, escalated the incident, and then shot her 'good man'.

    Another example, you see a guy holding a gun on another person and he is threatening to shoot him. You tell the guy with the gun to 'FREEZE', he turns toward you and you shoot to defend yourself. The guy turns out to be a CCWer protecting himself from a mugger.

    Intervention is dangerous.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    It all depends on the circumstances.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    As is always the case, not enough information to say for sure.
    But, IF the BG is concentrating on the person behind the register, and IF he is not standing there with an accomplice who is also armed (not reported, but don't know for sure), and depending on the distance to the perp (am I in line behind him? or seated at table near furthest exit?), I am quietly drawing my weapon, whispering to wife to head out the nearest exit now. IF the BG then gets threatening/agitated/waving the gun around, I am moving to the most advantageous position for some concealment and a shot without people as my backstop. IF he then looks at me, I will shoot.

    Again, we can't know for sure, but the GG may have been shot because he hesitated. Tough situation. Little detail. Hard call.
    +1
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Right now nobody has the first clue what actually happened in that restaurant.
    The media nor the police have released a specific time line break out of what occurred and what the GG saw as in relation to the BG. Atleast not as of 2 hrs. ago to my knowledge.

    This poll is premature as to current at best one can only guess at the reasoning as to why or even how the GG came to be involved, much less if his direct involvement was necessary or even beneficial on the whole.

    Yes a BG was stopped from stealing money, but under what pretense and by what means?
    Currently unknown.

    - Janq did not and will not submit a vote, until the whole of the facts are known

    "It all depends on the circumstances." - Matiki
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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