Shooter jailed, possible justifiable homicide/SD

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Thread: Shooter jailed, possible justifiable homicide/SD

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Shooter jailed, possible justifiable homicide/SD

    This, in the city that repeatedly arrests a black man for legally OCing. Note shooter is a black man with dreads.

    The first version of this story was 'road rage' over a fender bender, now emerging facts tell a different story. This guys freedom is going to hinge on a few facts that have not yet been leaked.

    For a real laugh, hit the link and read some of the comments. Reading comprehension must be pretty low around here.

    Waterside shooting was self-defense, accused says | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

    Waterside shooting was self-defense, accused says
    Posted to: Crime News Norfolk

    By Michelle Washington
    The Virginian-Pilot
    © March 28, 2009
    NORFOLK

    The man charged with murder in a shooting death at the Waterside parking garage last weekend fired in self-defense after seeing a gun on the driver who fought him after a fender bender, a defense lawyer said in court Friday.

    Reginald E. Royals Jr., 24, the man accused in the incident that left Juan Carlos Ovalle dead and another man injured, must remain in jail without bond, a judge ruled.

    Both the Ovalle and Royals families watched the proceedings in General District Court. Statements from both families painted pictures of the victim and the accused as hard working family men who had never been in trouble until a dispute over scratches on a car led to gunfire.

    Royals' lawyer, Jeffrey Swartz, said his client was by himself in the parking garage when his car bumped Ovalle's.

    The four people in Ovalle's car all got out, Swartz said. Royals gave his phone number, and someone in Ovalle's car immediately called it to verify it was the correct number. Someone in Ovalle's car took a picture of Royals' license plate, Swartz said.

    That's when Ovalle's friend Marcus McGee said Royals "probably doesn't have insurance. He's not going to pay," Swartz said.

    "Royals saw the victim had a gun in his pocket. He saw it because he displayed it," Swartz said, reaching toward his waist and motioning as if to hike up his shirt to display his waistband.

    All the men headed back to their cars, Swartz said, but then Royals saw Ovalle and McGee coming toward him. The men fought, Swartz said, with Ovalle and McGee striking Royals. That's when Royals reached into his car, got his own gun and started shooting.

    Ovalle was fatally shot in the head. McGee was shot several times and had wounds to his chest and a leg. He survived.

    Swartz said Royals' car was on the fourth floor of the garage; he had seen police on the second floor on his way up. Royals drove straight to the police, turned himself in, and gave a statement.

    "It was only because he was in fear of his life that he pulled a gun and shot," Swartz said. "He cooperated with the police in every way he could."

    Prosecutor Val Bowen told Judge Ray Dezern that Ovalle did have a gun when he first got out of his car but had placed it in the console before confronting Royals a second time.

    "The victims were unarmed " when they were shot, Bowen said. "It was a fist fight. If he was so afraid, why would he turn his back to go into the car and get a gun?"

    Bowen said Royals told police that he believed he saw Ovalle reach for a gun during the fight. McGee did not have a gun, Bowen said.

    Bowen told Dezern that police found two holsters and 9 mm cartridges in Royals' car. Police also took a gun from Royals.

    Bowen said Royals had no criminal record.

    Royals' friends and family members filled two rows of benches in the courtroom. His mother and sister testified as to his character. His sister, Tamara Wilson, said Royals has worked as an electrician with Northrop Grumman for three years, and that his foreman has promised that his job remains available if he is released from jail.

    His mother, Jacquelyn Royals, said she taught her children that if they were picked on, to walk away, tell a teacher, tell a principal.

    "Reggie, he would run from trouble," she said. "He was never violent."

    She said her son graduated from high school in 2002 with an advanced studies degree and was most valuable player in his baseball league. He attended Virginia State University for three years to study electrical engineering but left when his maternal grandmother died.

    "I begged Reggie not to drop out of school, but he wanted to drop out to get a job to help me at home," she said.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Without being in the jury and hearing all the facts, it's hard to pass judgement.

    However, I don't think you maintain a job at Northrup Grumman by being a knucklehead.

    I don't know how things are there now, but I used to be stationed at Langley 10years ago and I don't remember feeling like Hampton Roads and Newport News were the safest neighborhoods in VA.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

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    Distinguished Member Array Elk Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    However, I don't think you maintain a job at Northrup Grumman by being a knucklehead.
    Sure you can I work with some in Colorado Springs.

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elk Hunter View Post
    Sure you can I work with some in Colorado Springs.
    Well, that is Colorado Springs.... I guess you have to take what help you can get.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    Hard to say, but there seems to also have been an element of disparity of force in favor of the accused.

    "the four people in Ovalle's car all got out, ..."

    "Marcus McGee said Royals "probably doesn't have insurance. He's not going to pay," Swartz said." (pure speculation by McGee designed to heighten not reduce the tension)

    ""It was a fist fight" the prosecutor said, while ignoring the 2 on one and possibly 4 on one aspect of things.

    I'd look first at whether any of these guys were licensed, or carrying illegally, and judge things in part from that vantage. Not saying that you can't have a legit SD without a license, but if anyone was carrying illegally, they are at fault. If the accused was carrying illegally, I'd look skeptically at the SD defense.

    If the dead guy or his friends were carrying illegally I'd look at that too. I would also want to know the records of all involved. Somehow I doubt that these were all clean cut clear-record choir boys.

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    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    Hard to say ,not having been there. Royals just might be right, one thing though ; If you can get the gun out of the car,can you just as easily drive off ? Who knows, maybe his car was blocked by the other guys.
    If I have an accident, and 4 guys get out of a car, you can bet your last dollar that I'll be armed. You can't count on people to be civil, very unfortunate.McGee sounds like a real jerk,an instigator. I'll bet he's sorry he ran his mouth now.

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Three comments...

    1) Fender benders
    Always call the cops, immediately, upon auto incident interactions with others and ask for a response.
    This is my own personal default rule upon being shafted for coin under same conditions by another, and not calling the cops _immediately_.
    Had Royalle done this to start he'd have had police response from two floor s below within minutes.

    2) J.A.M. aka 'Justification, Ability and Means'
    "The victims were unarmed " when they were shot, Bowen said. "It was a fist fight. If he was so afraid, why would he turn his back to go into the car and get a gun?"
    Excuse me but a fist fight one defending himself against another attacking is Assault and Battery. Two grown men against one is ABx2 as well as disparity of force. Both as single counts are justifiable in VA if the victim is placed in fear of injury. Never mind the FACT that Royalle saw the Ovalle display a handgun as well.
    Bowen is an idiot.

    3) Your mom and sister is not a character witness.
    All the time people bring their momma and grandma into court to sing their praises. What the heck else are they going to say about you? Those type blood relations are not good references of as much.
    They should have brought in Royalle's _employer_ and several of his coworkers. A neighbor. Bring in folk from his church. The postman even.
    Anybody else but mom and sis. This is serious business not a meeting with the school principal over a black eye.

    Hampton Roads and Norfolk is and has been for ages rife with crime and criminal minded persons. It's not a great area.
    I wish for Royalle's best benefit that he upon seeing the other guy being armed had immediately retreated to his vehicle, locked it, and drive away (!) _while dialing 911. Do not just stand there and continue talking to these people.
    Normal non-criminal minded people do not display hardware over anything never mind during a fender bender incident.

    - Janq

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    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNUT View Post
    If you can get the gun out of the car,can you just as easily drive off ?
    And wait for them to volley lead at you as you are trying to drive away?

    If I know a bad guy has a gun, AND I'm in fear for my life; having the option to grab my gun off the seat or try to get behind the wheel and drive away, I'm grabbing my gun.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    And wait for them to volley lead at you as you are trying to drive away?

    If I know a bad guy has a gun, AND I'm in fear for my life; having the option to grab my gun off the seat or try to get behind the wheel and drive away, I'm grabbing my gun.


    good point, I'm just wondering if he could have. The dead guy and his friend did not have guns, but Royals must have thought that they did. I'm not second guessing the guy, I wasn't there.

    None of it would have happened if the dead guy and his friend had acted like civilized people do after a fender bender.

    Always, always call the police,no matter how nice the people seem at the time.

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNUT View Post
    good point, I'm just wondering if he could have. The dead guy and his friend did not have guns, but Royals must have thought that they did. I'm not second guessing the guy, I wasn't there.

    None of it would have happened if the dead guy and his friend had acted like civilized people do after a fender bender.

    Always, always call the police,no matter how nice the people seem at the time.
    What the article said was
    Prosecutor Val Bowen told Judge Ray Dezern that Ovalle did have a gun when he first got out of his car but had placed it in the console before confronting Royals a second time.
    So, not on him by the time LE arrived. Hard to say where it was in the moments before Mr. Royals fired.

    Just messed up. Completely messed up. Most likely how it usually is unless you are locked in your bedroom when BG shows up with a weapon.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNUT View Post
    The dead guy and his friend did not have guns
    At least they didn't by the time the police showed up.

    If I'm reading the story correctly, some of their co-riders were at the scene alone before the police showed up.

    I don't know what went on, but it's real easy to make a couple guns disappear if no one else is around.

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    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    Lets see,
    One: the 4 guys, one of which flashed his gun, all approached a single man
    Two:2 of these 4 attacked a single man next to his car
    Three:There was no cops around

    I see this as a SD shooting, then again we lack to many facts to be certain.

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    Case of shooting in Waterside garage to go to grand jury | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

    Case of shooting in Waterside garage to go to grand jury
    Posted to: Crime News Norfolk

    Reginald E. Royals Jr. is charged
    Juan Carlos Ovalle was killed


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    Previous: Family wonders how minor accident ended a dream

    By Michelle Washington
    The Virginian-Pilot
    © June 2, 2009

    NORFOLK

    The fight in the Waterside parking garage seemed over when a passer-by shouted for the three men trading blows to stop.

    But during that pause, testified Marcus McGee, Reginald Royals Jr. reached in his car, pulled out a gun and started shooting.

    The first volley of bullets hit McGee in his back, hip and shoulder. A second series of shots killed his friend, Juan Carlos Ovalle, when a bullet struck him in the head.

    The incident happened March 22. McGee testified Monday during Royals' preliminary hearing in General District Court. Judge S. Clark Daugherty ruled that murder, malicious wounding and weapons charges against Royals should be heard by a grand jury this month.

    Daugherty denied a motion by Royals' lawyer, Jeffrey Swartz, to reduce the charge from murder to manslaughter. Swartz argued that his client sought to protect himself during a fist fight that was two against one and in which one of his opponents, Ovalle, carried a gun.

    Friends and family for both Royals and Ovalle filled several rows in the courtroom.

    McGee said he, Ovalle, Alana Lindsay and a fourth person spent part of the evening in a Waterside bar. McGee and Lindsay testified that as they walked to their car in the parking garage to go home, they passed Royals, who was revving the engine of his car. When Ovalle reached his car, McGee said, he took his gun out of the glove box and put it in his pocket.

    Ovalle pulled out of his parking space but soon stopped in traffic trying to leave the garage. That's when Royals bumped their car, McGee said. Within moments, Royals bumped Ovalle's car again.

    Ovalle and McGee got out of their car, a white Nissan Altima, to inspect the damage. They exchanged phone numbers with Royals, and Lindsay called Royals' phone to make sure the number was valid. McGee took a picture of Royals' license plate.

    Lindsay remained in Ovalle's car but said she could see the butt of Ovalle's gun as he talked with Royals. Ovalle did not flash it, she said, nor did he remove it from his pocket.

    When Ovalle and McGee returned to the car, Lindsay said, they seemed agitated. They did not believe that Royals had insurance, she said, and decided to approach him again to get the name of his insurance company.

    That's when punches were thrown. McGee said he could not remember who swung first. He said Royals landed a punch that made Ovalle stumble back. Royals turned to look at McGee, and the two of them exchanged blows.

    Then a stranger ran up and shouted for the men to stop. The shooting started after that.

    McGee fled, but Ovalle was hemmed in by cars. Lindsay said once Ovalle fell, Royals ordered her and the other man out of Ovalle's car. Royals held his gun above his waist, Lindsay said, and began pacing.

    "I started begging him to get into his car and leave," she said.

    Royals did. His lawyer, Swartz, said at a previous hearing that Royals drove straight to police on another floor of the garage and turned himself in.

    At the end of Monday's testimony, Swartz argued that the case should go forward on lesser charges of manslaughter and unlawful wounding, saying there was no malice behind Royals' actions.

    "He was injured, outnumbered. He's in fear," Swartz said of Royals. "He grabs his gun and it's boom, boom, boom in a matter of seconds."

    Prosecutor Amy Cross countered that neither McGee nor Ovalle displayed a gun.

    "This was a fight, not an incident where the defendant was in reasonable fear of death, and yet he reacts with deadly force," Cross said.
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    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    "He was injured, outnumbered. He's in fear," Swartz said of Royals. "He grabs his gun and it's boom, boom, boom in a matter of seconds."

    Prosecutor Amy Cross countered that neither McGee nor Ovalle displayed a gun.

    "This was a fight, not an incident where the defendant was in reasonable fear of death, and yet he reacts with deadly force," Cross said.

    This totally amazes me. Why should anyone have to accept a beat down just becauses the agressor is unarmed?

    Michael

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