Violating department policies

This is a discussion on Violating department policies within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by BikerRN Glock30SF and SigmanLuke After you have fired your weapon in self defense you may, and I stress may, come to understand ...

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Thread: Violating department policies

  1. #16
    Member Array Glock30SF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Glock30SF and SigmanLuke

    After you have fired your weapon in self defense you may, and I stress may, come to understand how that is possible.

    I know it seems "fishy" when you first hear of it, did to me too. You probably won't know how many rounds you fired, hear the report of the bullet or feel any recoil. That's how it's possible.

    It's really funny what things you don't notice when you are busy trying to stay alive.

    Biker
    Guess everyone is different. I did have to fire my gun one time and I DID know that I had done so. Now the how many shots part I agree 100%
    “The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.”.... Albert Einstein

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  3. #17
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Gentleman,

    While one may not know how many rounds they have fired, or even that they have fired their weapon, there is a way to handle this in my opinion that doesn't cover anything up, or hide anything.

    For the sake of arguement, let's say I fired my gun three times and do not recall having discharged my weapon. When I got home that night after shift, or before going on the next shift I will check my magazine and make sure it is fully loaded. I will also check the chamber.

    At that point and time I would discover that I am missing three rounds by seeing an empty space in the viewing holes in the magazine. That would cause me to count the rounds in my gun and if I had less than the "normal" amount I would have proof that I discharged my weapon. At that point I would get on the phone to a supervisor and inform them. Then, when I get to work I can write a report as to what I had discovered.

    By doing it this way I would have shown complete honesty and not tried to "hide" anything. It is when you discover something wrong and then ignore it that problems arise. To me it's just common sense to be "forthright and honest", but sadly not everyone is that way.

    Like I've said before, I know a Police Officer that fired his weapon, cleaned his gun, reloaded it and then denied having fired his weapon when asked. Mistakes happen, but trying to cover them up is worse than admiting to the mistake. We are, all of us, human. It is only natural that we make a mistake now and again. How you handle that mistake is what's important.

    I can give anyone the benefit of the doubt as to knowing if they fired their weapon or not. Stranger things have happened. When I was going through my Background Investigation I forgot that I was accused of sexual harrassment once. It really wasn't that big of a deal to me, as it was a silly thing that happened in the past that I had already forgotten. Upon remembering the incident I called my prospective employer and they had me write up a letter detailing the situation. I then faxed it to them and that was it. They, my prospective employer at the time, looked in to it and then offered me a job.

    Most people would ask how one could forget something like that. The brain has a way of supressing things that are difficult, sort of a survival mechanism. Honestly, I had "moved on" from the incident, and it really wasn't that big of a deal. If I had not come forward with the information after I recalled it or discovered it, then I would be a liar. I answered honestly when they had previously asked me if I had ever been involved in any sexual harrassment issues, because I did not recall the event!

    Most people would think they would never forget something like that. Trust me, you will be amazed at what you can forget in a lifetime. It all has to do with what you do once you discover something. That's why I'm not a fan of answering questions immediately after a self defense scenario. What you recall later will make you look like a liar if it contradicts your previous version.

    Biker

  4. #18
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    There have been many cases of multiple officer involved shootings where some don't even realize that they had fired shots. I was at one myself two summers ago. I didn't shoot, but four others did. The fourth officer waited with me to give our statements to the investigators. Only when video was replayed and guns were checked did any of us realize that officer #4 shot 5 shots too.

    There was nothing to hide, the shooting was righteous. Stress and chaos of battle plays funny tricks on you.

    I've done it several times myself in force on force training. One time, I swore up and down I never fired a shot, that my partner took care of business. About 10 other officers witnessed the training scenario attested that I alone annihilated the BG with several shots in the scenario. I would have thought they were kidding with me to this day, but I saw the video replay.

    So, it can and does happen. With all that said, I couldnt imagine being that close to a shooting as an LEO and just rolling after the fact without at least giving contact info.

    ....and dispatch only knows what you tell them. They very well may not have known who was there and who was not.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #19
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    ....and dispatch only knows what you tell them. They very well may not have known who was there and who was not.
    Thats right.
    I have rolled up on two scenes in which I did not have time to notify dispatch as to what was happening. I notifed them that I was en route, but not that I was there until the situation was taken care of.

    Not exactly the right way by the book, but it worked at the time...
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  6. #20
    Member Array sharpetop's Avatar
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    I understand, 100%, about not knowing how many shots were fired by those who fired them. The fishy smelling part is the part about the Sheriff not knowing for a week. Way too many witnesses for him not to know.

  7. #21
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    PG County? Not surprised....at all...
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  8. #22
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    Allot of shots for sure. Good thing no one else was injured. Not knowing that you fired your weapon, opinions vary on that one, I'll leave that alone. Not telling your boss you were there, bad move.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Gentleman,

    While one may not know how many rounds they have fired, or even that they have fired their weapon, there is a way to handle this in my opinion that doesn't cover anything up, or hide anything.

    For the sake of arguement, let's say I fired my gun three times and do not recall having discharged my weapon. When I got home that night after shift, or before going on the next shift I will check my magazine and make sure it is fully loaded. I will also check the chamber.

    At that point and time I would discover that I am missing three rounds by seeing an empty space in the viewing holes in the magazine. That would cause me to count the rounds in my gun and if I had less than the "normal" amount I would have proof that I discharged my weapon. At that point I would get on the phone to a supervisor and inform them. Then, when I get to work I can write a report as to what I had discovered.

    By doing it this way I would have shown complete honesty and not tried to "hide" anything. It is when you discover something wrong and then ignore it that problems arise. To me it's just common sense to be "forthright and honest", but sadly not everyone is that way.

    Like I've said before, I know a Police Officer that fired his weapon, cleaned his gun, reloaded it and then denied having fired his weapon when asked. Mistakes happen, but trying to cover them up is worse than admiting to the mistake. We are, all of us, human. It is only natural that we make a mistake now and again. How you handle that mistake is what's important.

    I can give anyone the benefit of the doubt as to knowing if they fired their weapon or not. Stranger things have happened. When I was going through my Background Investigation I forgot that I was accused of sexual harrassment once. It really wasn't that big of a deal to me, as it was a silly thing that happened in the past that I had already forgotten. Upon remembering the incident I called my prospective employer and they had me write up a letter detailing the situation. I then faxed it to them and that was it. They, my prospective employer at the time, looked in to it and then offered me a job.

    Most people would ask how one could forget something like that. The brain has a way of supressing things that are difficult, sort of a survival mechanism. Honestly, I had "moved on" from the incident, and it really wasn't that big of a deal. If I had not come forward with the information after I recalled it or discovered it, then I would be a liar. I answered honestly when they had previously asked me if I had ever been involved in any sexual harrassment issues, because I did not recall the event!

    Most people would think they would never forget something like that. Trust me, you will be amazed at what you can forget in a lifetime. It all has to do with what you do once you discover something. That's why I'm not a fan of answering questions immediately after a self defense scenario. What you recall later will make you look like a liar if it contradicts your previous version.

    Biker
    Biker, I can understand that, and I feel that in the hypothetical you gave, you handled it correctly. (JMO)

    Thanks for the comment, Sigmanluke
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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