Violating department policies

Violating department policies

This is a discussion on Violating department policies within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Rather strange report. Don't know if it belongs here or under Law Enforcement. washingtonpost.com Against Policy, 11 Deputies Left Pr . George's Shooting Scene By ...

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  1. #1
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    Violating department policies

    Rather strange report. Don't know if it belongs here or under Law Enforcement.

    washingtonpost.com

    Against Policy, 11 Deputies Left Pr. George's Shooting Scene

    By Aaron C. Davis
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Friday, April 3, 2009; Page B01

    Eleven Prince George's County sheriff's deputies left the scene of a deadly shooting last month, including one who fired 11 rounds, violating department policies that required them to remain present and surrender any weapons that had been fired, authorities said yesterday.

    Sheriff Michael Jackson said he did not learn for more than a week that his deputies had been involved in the March 17 incident in Temple Hills. He said the involvement came to light only because the number of bullets recovered -- about 90 -- did not match the number of shots fired by county and Maryland-National Capital Park Police officers.

    Jackson said the deputy who fired, Gustavo Casanova, has been placed on leave pending the outcome of a county police investigation into the shooting. Jackson said an internal sheriff's office investigation into the actions of the 11 officers -- 10 deputies and one sergeant -- would follow.

    "For some unknown reason," he said, "people did not report that they were on the scene, and that has caused great concern for us."

    Nicholas A. Howard of the 1800 block of Q Street SE was killed just after midnight on St. Patrick's Day when he fired his weapon toward police officers outside Gill's Holiday Liquor Sports Bar and Restaurant on Branch Avenue, authorities have said.

    Howard, 26, was killed in gunfire that officials initially said came from a total of 14 officers. The gunfire sent patrons diving for cover, shattered glass and mirrors and left more than 40 bullet holes in the facade of the bar and restaurant.

    Jackson said Casanova has been on the force about three years. Jackson said he is "fairly certain" no other deputies fired. Casanova could not immediately be reached.

    Twelve Prince George's police officers and two from the Maryland-National Capital Park Police were placed on administrative leave immediately and were identified publicly by their agencies the day after the shooting.

    Staff writer Mary Pat Flaherty contributed to this report.
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  2. #2
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    Pretty strange.....Why would you not report to your chief that you were part of that incident?
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    I can see it happening. Very easily.

    The initial report should have covered all officers that were present on the scene, apparently it didnt.

    There were probably alot of assumptions that were made. It was more than one police agency involved, the primary agency would have made the report, all others would have been supplimentary and when several agencys are used, sometime the details get left out.

    I've seen it happen here when more than one agency is involved, I guess it happens everywhere.In the heat of the battle, reports are the last thing on your mind. When the situation gets stabilized, other officers are still going on calls elsewhere and its easy to forget who was there, more than likely no one knew for sure at the moment. Dispatch could find out by listening to who checked in at the scene, but it would take some time to do that and it would only happen if there was a question about it.
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    One would think that any officer involved in a shooting incident would WANT a copy (of a report) of any action taken if he/she fired a weapon.
    In today's legal world one would want to make sure that all the i's were dotted properly.

    Mmmmmm, wonder why the officer(s) let that one pass...
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    Mmmmmm, wonder why the officer(s) let that one pass...
    It may have been that they weren't required to file a report for discharging a firearm.

    I work for two different agencys.
    One requires a report for every shot fired, one dosent.

    In today's legal world one would want to make sure that all the i's were dotted properly.
    No doubt on that one.
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    Why did 14 officers fire 90 rounds at one guy who fired a single shot, resulting in "gunfire sent patrons diving for cover, shattered glass and mirrors and left more than 40 bullet holes in the facade of the bar and restaurant.".

    Had a civilian singular fired one tenth that many rounds (say from a 1911) under same cause at a same singular person and resulted in as much property damage and exposure of persons amongst the background being in real danger that civilian justified as he might be would be charged with crimes and liable to civil penalty too.

    I'm sorry but this whole thing stinks to me inclusive of _numerous_ officers not making reports who no doubt are not all rookies walking away from a crime scene upon being there as witness afterward never mind having been on site before and/or even have participated in the not insignificant gun fire and discharge of arms.
    Making a report toward such an interaction is mandatory and within standard practice even if it is toward some other departments activity.

    But then soon as saw the location being Temple Hills, MD (!) I immediately knew the score without reading further.
    It's well known the police who work that shady area are themselves shadier than shade trees and have been so for decades P.G. County police and the sheriffs dept as well.

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    I can very easily see this happening.

    Different agencies have different policies in regards to reporting firing your weapon. As far as leaving the scene, that too can be a policy decision. I know I left the scene of my shotgun usage promptly. I also didn't report it, my co-worker did.

    If asked about what happened I would expect the LEO's to tell the truth, but sadly that is not always the case. I know of one case where a LEO fired his weapon and left the scene. The next day when questioned about it he denied firing his gun. Ballistic Evidence got him fired, as he had a fully loaded and clean gun the next day.

    That means he went home after the shooting, cleaned the gun and loaded it. So far I'm OK with that. What I have a problem with is him not "snitching himself off" and reporting it when he learned that he had fired his weapon, if the agency has a policy to report when you discharge your weapon. He honestly may not have realized that he fired his weapon during the incident.

    What cleared me was that I never lied. Like I said, sadly not all LEO's are that way, but I believe most are honest people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Why did 14 officers fire 90 rounds at one guy who fired a single shot, resulting in "gunfire sent patrons diving for cover, shattered glass and mirrors and left more than 40 bullet holes in the facade of the bar and restaurant.".

    Had a civilian singular fired one tenth that many rounds (say from a 1911) under same cause at a same singular person and resulted in as much property damage and exposure of persons amongst the background being in real danger that civilian justified as he might be would be charged with crimes and liable to civil penalty too.

    I'm sorry but this whole thing stinks to me inclusive of _numerous_ officers not making reports who no doubt are not all rookies walking away from a crime scene upon being there as witness afterward never mind having been on site before and/or even have participated in the not insignificant gun fire and discharge of arms.
    Making a report toward such an interaction is mandatory and within standard practice even if it is toward some other departments activity.

    But then soon as saw the location being Temple Hills, MD (!) I immediately knew the score without reading further.
    It's well known the police who work that shady area are themselves shadier than shade trees and have been so for decades P.G. County police and the sheriffs dept as well.

    - Janq
    The fact that 11 officers fired 90 rounds doesn't bother me.

    That means that on average, each officer fired 8 or 9 rounds.

    The drill is shoot until the thread is eliminated. They didn't have time to discuss who would shoot and who wouldn't.

    What bothers me is that they didn't report to the boss like they were supposed to. Makes it sound like they were hiding something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I can very easily see this happening.

    Different agencies have different policies in regards to reporting firing your weapon. As far as leaving the scene, that too can be a policy decision. I know I left the scene of my shotgun usage promptly. I also didn't report it, my co-worker did.

    If asked about what happened I would expect the LEO's to tell the truth, but sadly that is not always the case. I know of one case where a LEO fired his weapon and left the scene. The next day when questioned about it he denied firing his gun. Ballistic Evidence got him fired, as he had a fully loaded and clean gun the next day.

    That means he went home after the shooting, cleaned the gun and loaded it. So far I'm OK with that. What I have a problem with is him not "snitching himself off" and reporting it when he learned that he had fired his weapon, if the agency has a policy to report when you discharge your weapon. He honestly may not have realized that he fired his weapon during the incident.

    What cleared me was that I never lied. Like I said, sadly not all LEO's are that way, but I believe most are honest people.

    Biker

    How is this even possible? Could you fire your weapon and not know it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    What I have a problem with is him not "snitching himself off" and reporting it when he learned that he had fired his weapon, if the agency has a policy to report when you discharge your weapon. He honestly may not have realized that he fired his weapon during the incident. Biker

    How in gods name would you not KNOW if you fired your weapon?!? Am I missing something here?
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    I smell something fishy here! Dispatch would have records of all officers who showed up at the scene. With this many officers involved and 90 shots fired, somebody, LEO or civilian, would have said something to investigating officers.

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    I am curious if the deputies were on duty or off. I don't remember PGSO as having a lot of people working nights except when they were doing a warrant round up.
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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Glock30SF and SigmanLuke

    After you have fired your weapon in self defense you may, and I stress may, come to understand how that is possible.

    I know it seems "fishy" when you first hear of it, did to me too. You probably won't know how many rounds you fired, hear the report of the bullet or feel any recoil. That's how it's possible.

    It's really funny what things you don't notice when you are busy trying to stay alive.

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Glock30SF and SigmanLuke

    After you have fired your weapon in self defense you may, and I stress may, come to understand how that is possible.

    I know it seems "fishy" when you first hear of it, did to me too. You probably won't know how many rounds you fired, hear the report of the bullet or feel any recoil. That's how it's possible.

    It's really funny what things you don't notice when you are busy trying to stay alive.

    Biker
    I understand you may not remember how many rounds you fired but I ain't buying the argument you wouldn't realise you fired 11 rounds out of your gun.
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  15. #15
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    Sheriff Michael Jackson.... eee heeee

    Seriously, how do you not report this incident?
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