[BAD] Two killed in Michigan college shooting

This is a discussion on [BAD] Two killed in Michigan college shooting within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Two killed in Michigan college shooting - CNN.com Two people were shot and killed Friday at a community college in Dearborn, Michigan, an official said. ...

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Thread: [BAD] Two killed in Michigan college shooting

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array JohnKelly's Avatar
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    [BAD] Two killed in Michigan college shooting

    Two killed in Michigan college shooting - CNN.com

    Two people were shot and killed Friday at a community college in Dearborn, Michigan, an official said.
    The Henry Ford Community College campus in Dearborn, Michigan, was locked down after the shooting.

    The Henry Ford Community College campus in Dearborn, Michigan, was locked down after the shooting.

    A man and woman were found dead in a classroom building on the campus of Henry Ford Community College, said Dearborn Fire Department Battalion Chief John Hay.

    Dearborn police confirmed that shots were fired at the college and that the scene was contained. They declined to say whether anyone was in custody.

    A woman who answered the phone in the office of the school's president, Gail Mee, said that the shootings occurred in the Fine Arts Building and that the campus was in lockdown.

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  3. #2
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    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
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    I grew up in Dearborn...went to HFCC.
    Certainly violence is not rare here, in just another 'gun-free zone'!

    (I wonder why this didn't happen at the Dearborn Police Station located just a ways away...Mmmmmm, I wonder what the difference could be?)
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    Senior Member Array JohnKelly's Avatar
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    Now being reported as a murder/suicide.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Until people are allowed to carry anywhere and everywhere to defend themselves this will continue,He knew where the victim would be and he knew that no law abiding citizens would be armed and able to stop him
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Until people are allowed to carry anywhere and everywhere to defend themselves this will continue,He knew where the victim would be and he knew that no law abiding citizens would be armed and able to stop him
    To that end with single person intent M-S it doesn't matter.

    There could be twenty aremed guards standing around in her immediate vicinity even being shoulder to shoulder with her.
    If a crazy person wants to get next to you then he or she will plan it out to make it happen, and succeed.

    History shows this to be true amongst major political figures such as multiple Presidents (twice within months against Ford!), the Pope, and other heads of state never mind a female NASA astronaut going HAL9000 against the competition for her suitor and police all around everywhere have record of same in acts of violence against women.

    With items like this depending on hope that by chance some civilian person might happen to be armed and standing in the same room muchless beside the intended victim or out of the blue acting aggressor is too much of a stretch to believe in realistically. Even if this woman herself had been armed she too would likely have little to no time to assess the situation as being threat level red and to act in order to save her own life. She'd most likely be dead, whilst armed.
    As to some other third person taking down the BG. Pointless considering these single victim focus murder suicide people do that job for and on them self.

    Unlike with mass murder events such as the Trolley Mall or most recently Binghamton, NY there is little any armed third person could really do toward this specific type of situation but witness it in the moment of occurrence and call the cops for cleanup. :|

    And BTW even amongst states where there is no disincentive to carry a concealed weapon there still is less than 3% of the civilian and lawful acting population that chooses to do in any active way as per state license/permit numbers. Folks are never going to in large droves take to concealed carry by any measure large enough to make a significant impact on criminal victimization toward defeating crimes for other third parties. There are just far too many people who do not and will not no matter what carry a firearm on their person...as well as far too many places and moment to moment instances where any one could be any place at anytime.

    Carry really at best works singularly for the person carrying, the fortunate 3% or less at any given time or place that is lawful.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I grew up in Dearborn...went to HFCC.
    Certainly violence is not rare here, in just another 'gun-free zone'!

    (I wonder why this didn't happen at the Dearborn Police Station located just a ways away...Mmmmmm, I wonder what the difference could be?)

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    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    To that end with single person intent M-S it doesn't matter.

    There could be twenty aremed guards standing around in her immediate vicinity even being shoulder to shoulder with her.
    If a crazy person wants to get next to you then he or she will plan it out to make it happen, and succeed.

    History shows this to be true amongst major political figures such as multiple Presidents (twice within months against Ford!), the Pope, and other heads of state never mind a female NASA astronaut going HAL9000 against the competition for her suitor and police all around everywhere have record of same in acts of violence against women.

    With items like this depending on hope that by chance some civilian person might happen to be armed and standing in the same room muchless beside the intended victim or out of the blue acting aggressor is too much of a stretch to believe in realistically. Even if this woman herself had been armed she too would likely have little to no time to assess the situation as being threat level red and to act in order to save her own life. She'd most likely be dead, whilst armed.
    As to some other third person taking down the BG. Pointless considering these single victim focus murder suicide people do that job for and on them self.

    Unlike with mass murder events such as the Trolley Mall or most recently Binghamton, NY there is little any armed third person could really do toward this specific type of situation but witness it in the moment of occurrence and call the cops for cleanup. :|

    And BTW even amongst states where there is no disincentive to carry a concealed weapon there still is less than 3% of the civilian and lawful acting population that chooses to do in any active way as per state license/permit numbers. Folks are never going to in large droves take to concealed carry by any measure large enough to make a significant impact on criminal victimization toward defeating crimes for other third parties. There are just far too many people who do not and will not no matter what carry a firearm on their person...as well as far too many places and moment to moment instances where any one could be any place at anytime.

    Carry really at best works singularly for the person carrying, the fortunate 3% or less at any given time or place that is lawful.

    - Janq
    Much of what you say is pretty well thought out but some is bit over generalized (always the case when you talk about self defense, because that is a highly individual thing that doesn't fit too many stereotyes). I don't know if this murder-suicide was the end result of battering by the husband -- but if it was, consider this quote from Don Kates' article on "Guns, Murders, and the Constitution":

    Only by turning a blind eye to acquaintance crime could the Chairman of Handgun Control Inc. claim that "the handgun owner rarely even gets the chance to use his gun." That assertion restates the argument of Newton and Zimring and the Handgun Control Staff. They emphasized the unexpectedness of stranger attacks-- from which they characterized it as "ludicrous" to think a victim "will have sufficient time to retrieve" her handgun.[99]

    As discussed above, even in cases of crime by strangers, this view is supported only by Newton and Zimring's inaccurate and misleading rendition of pre-1980s data, which is further discredited by the data available today. Moreover, in relation to (p.28)violence against women, the assertion that women would invariably be too surprised by violent attack to use a handgun in self-defense is insupportable. On the contrary, in most instances, the man who beats or murders a woman (often even the rapist) is an acquaintance who has previously assaulted her on one or more occasions.[100] Such crimes commonly occur after a protracted and bellicose argument over a long-simmering dispute. The women's defensive homicide literature shows that such a victim is almost uniquely positioned for self-defense. Knowing the mannerisms and circumstances that triggered or preceded her attacker's earlier attacks, she has

    "a hypervigilance to cues of any kind of impending violence ... [She is] a little bit more responsive to situations than somebody who has not been battered might be." A woman who has [previously] been battered and then is threatened with more abuse is more likely to perceive the danger involved faster than one who has not been abused.[101]

    (end of quote)

    So, IF the woman had been previously assaulted and IF she had a mindset for self defense and a gun, she might well have been able to use it to defend herself. This type of thing happens more than you might think.

    But, it is all probably moot, as I think most likely she had neither a gun nor a self defense mindset...
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Your right Jang, but sometimes the attacker will not kill the victim right away,they will try to make them love them again or rant about why they are doing what they are doing,how they drove them to this point.In that case there may be an opening where the victim can draw and fire before the attacker can react.I did see on TV once where a news reporter was interviewing a woman that had taken out a restraining order against her husband and during the interview the guy came out of nowhere and shot his wife in the head,that type of attack is hard to defend against
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Member Array Chiller2's Avatar
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    Two people were shot and killed Friday at a community college in Dearborn, Michigan, an official said.
    The Henry Ford Community College campus in Dearborn, Michigan, was locked down after the shooting.
    That has to be a lie everyone knows a Campus is a gun free zone and it is impossible for someone to have a gun there this is just propaganda.

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