Wildlife officer shoots hunter? - Page 3

Wildlife officer shoots hunter?

This is a discussion on Wildlife officer shoots hunter? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I have been hunting in Texas for my whole life and have only had a problem with a Game Warden once (he gave me a ...

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Thread: Wildlife officer shoots hunter?

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array USPnTX's Avatar
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    I have been hunting in Texas for my whole life and have only had a problem with a Game Warden once (he gave me a parking citation -- long story). All the rest of my encounters with Texas Parks and Wildlife officers have been very professional and uneventful. In fact, all of us on our lease have made it a point to get to know the guys that work in our area.
    "Do not fear those who disagree with you; fear those that do and are too cowardly to admit it" - Napoleon


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    100% agreed and on all of your points as stated, not just the above singular...which really does ring true.

    All that you stated is as you already know, fact.
    Statements to the contrary are borne from either ignorance (simply not knowing) or personal issue/vendetta.

    It's a darn shame we don't have one of them amongst us here to comment.
    They go into woodland and rural areas alone with no backup (!) and interact with unknown temperment persons who largely and as a general fact are armed _as well as_ skilled. There is often times no car license plate that they can run from the comfort of a crusier to scan before pulling a person over so as to know up front if they driver might potentially be Joe Sixpack, Deebo, or the Pastor from the local church.

    Not a job for everyone it is, and especially so is not akin to any sort of mall security what so ever not even that of the federal US Capitol Police who do actually patrol a 'mall'.

    - Janq
    Its because we only remember the bad encounters. Thats the way life is. Look at what we watch on the news, we don't watch the news to see what went right in the world.

    My father retired from the police force in the 60's and I remember how angry I used to get when he was lumped in with the "bad" cops.
    This is why I don't understand it when cops defend their own when they know they were in the wrong. It only makes the whole organization smell. To many people believe that all LEO's are bad because of the way they try to cover their own. After all, why would I cover for someone who did something wrong if I too were not corrupt?

    Michael

  3. #33
    Member Array PeterCartwright's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    Source and statistics please?

    I don't believe your statement to be true.

    Sorry, guys. I'm just getting back from some other responsibilities. Statistics? I don't have them. I'm relating what state law enforcement personnel in both Wisconsin and Michigan told me more than a decade ago. I suspect it relates to the fact that there are relatively few conservation officers as compared with, for example, state troopers. (That would be where the "statistics" thing comes in. If one conservation officer is harmed or worse on duty, the percentages go way up.) Think about it: A very large percentage of those they encounter are armed. Those armed persons are often "lubricated". Others have mentioned that the "turf" of the conservation officer is often remote and without (close) backup And last, but not least, if they encounter dangerous persons, they're likely to have long guns-rifles or shotguns (instead of less powerful handguns).

    I just don't understand the mean-mouthing of these folks. Almost makes me wonder if there are some "axes to grind"?

    PC

  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array mathewsman's Avatar
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    what was the dnr officer thinking unless the guy was a criminal there is no need to have shot him but some older folks are a bit more stubborn then others so he probably got freaked out a shot him because the hunter wanted him to get off his property and why is the officer on his property in michigan they have no right to just walk on your land they think they do but they don't, the have as much power as the leos
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  5. #35
    Member Array chenemf's Avatar
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    Here is an older story (2006) regarding Game Wardens in California. Per the story:

    "Statistically, since 1979, 1.8 wardens have been killed on the job vs. every CHP officer," said Bob Orange, vice president of the California Game Wardens Association.


    The whole story can be found here:

    James Swan: The game warden is an endangered species - ESPN

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    The "owner" may have also thought he had the "right" to tell anyone he didn't want on his land, to get off, possibly at gun point.........

    Just another possibility. Who was right ? I'm with the land owner..... here, land owner's don't need a license to hunt on their own property, and have every right to carry any legal gun they want to while on it. They have to follow any State restrictions on caliber or type of gun if hunting certain game, and 'limits' on quantity, that's it. And, if he's carrying a gun.... doesn't mean he's hunting.
    We do carry guns on farms, etc. for protection.

  7. #37
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    Some thoughts on this topic, from a non-hunter.

    I've heard the same stuff about game wardens having broad powers. So, I suppose it is true, but wouldn't bet that it isn't really myth. Of course any officer can enter private property in pursuit of a suspect, or to investigate suspicious activity happening out in the open. A field isn't your house.

    "Victim" was 76. He might have been sharp as a tack, but he might also have been a little "off" and that might have precipitated the event.

    I'd be pretty darn (can't say the word here) if I was confronted by someone on my own private property.

    Not saying it happened, but if the officer began to use muscle, the property owner might have felt that his life was in danger and felt justified in attempting to use lethal force/ he lost the fight.

    We know way too little of what happened and never will know the truth because one of the participants is dead.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    I suspect your statement is true. Which in NO WAY WHAT SO EVER makes this statement true:

    Which is why I ask for 'source and statistics' please. You can't make a statement like that without being able to back it up. Just because they may face a majority of people who are armed, doesn't make it more dangerous because the majority of these people are law abiding citizens. But, I'll wait for the source before going too far down that road.....
    NO WAY WHAT SO EVER makes this statement true

    No way whatsoever.......wow
    ok, we don't have bean counter statistics on a chart for you but we don't need them to back up this claim...the only stats needed are to take into consideration what they do on a daily basis...
    think about it...the number of times they confront hunters breaking or possibly breaking the law and poachers out to make bucks or just get away with it...these people aren't suspected of having weapons....they DO for sure have SHOTGUNS and RIFLES and are facing fines, forfeitures of game, weapons, money, hunting privileges, and jail time which puts them in more danger more often;
    they don't have partners and typically backup is miles away
    if you don't understand that then any numbers, stats, or whatever won't help you to understand; stats are not always needed for something to be true...there are other circumstances which support certain statements
    many LEOs, including myself, say that our Game Wardens are in more dangerous situations on a daily basis than the typical LEO
    I work on a shift with a minimum of 5 to 7 other officers working the same sector of town I'm assigned to...sometimes more, and thats just 1 of 4 sectors...a game warden is out in the middle of nowhere confronting people that are breaking the law that have and easy opportunity to unload on the warden and take off, warden doesn't have backup readily available...out in the middle of nowhere...hands down more dangerous than my job
    my brother works for the Texas Parks & Wildlife Dept and would totally agree

    I don't have the Warden's name or stats to go with it so you may not believe me, but one of the Game Wardens working the area I grew up in had more deadly force encounters himself than many of the LE agencies around area, he put a few people 6ft under because he caught them in some bad situations and they thought they would fight their way out of it

    hinkleid
    Game wardens really are cop wanna be's. One step up from mall security. Must not have made it as a real cop so had to take the job as a game warden
    I can't reply to this the way I want to without breaking forum rules, but I will say seems to me you have broken hunting/fishing laws and got busted for it, I take pride in the fact that I've never broken game laws; as I stated above our game wardens are peace officers just like me, go through same Texas DPS academy our state troopers do
    before you go insulting
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  9. #39
    Member Array jughead2's Avatar
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    game warden

    Quote Originally Posted by tankdriver View Post
    State game wardens and Federal USFWS game wardens are the closest thing we have to Gestapo. They can come on your proerty, and in your house with out a warrant. Take your car, and gun with out a warrant.

    Be nice to those guys......
    absolutely cant come into ones house in tn. without a warrant legally. dont have the statute handy but have won many an argument over that. look it up it is there in black and white

  10. #40
    Member Array SweetSig's Avatar
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    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." ~Thomas Jefferson~

    "...Be not ye afraid of them: remember the LORD, which is great and terrible, and fight for your brethren, your sons, and your daughters, your wives, and your houses." ~Nehemiah 4:14~

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array BradyM77's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetSig View Post
    +1 I'm out of here to another thread til more information is known about THIS PARTICULAR CASE. I'll leave you all to your "stats" or lack thereof.
    "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Bart Simpson

  12. #42
    Ex Member Array GreenHorn's Avatar
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    I sure don't have an axe to grind for I have never had a bad experience with game wardens.

    I do however have a problem with the assumption that you are breaking the law because you are a hunter.

    Why should I stop hunting and walk 1/2 mile over to the wardens truck where he is honking his horn and or waving at me?

    Well he needs to check me out to make sure everything is legal.
    He has made the assumption that I am probably breaking some law.

    Well if that is the case you also need to pull over every single driver that drives by.

  13. #43
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    NO WAY WHAT SO EVER makes this statement true

    No way whatsoever.......wow
    ok, we don't have bean counter statistics on a chart for you but we don't need them to back up this claim...the only stats needed are to take into consideration what they do on a daily basis...
    think about it...the number of times they confront hunters breaking or possibly breaking the law and poachers out to make bucks or just get away with it...these people aren't suspected of having weapons....they DO for sure have SHOTGUNS and RIFLES and are facing fines, forfeitures of game, weapons, money, hunting privileges, and jail time which puts them in more danger more often;
    Whatever pal, and maybe my job is to assemble 200 black powder, high explosive, fireworks all day. Doesn't make my job 'statistically the most dangerous in a whatever state radius.' Or maybe I work in a nuclear factory changing out fuel rods. So what, there are safeties built into jobs and my point about Wardens is that the majority of the people they come across are law abiding citizens. So what if they are armed? The criminals who would harm an officer usually are whether they are in the woods or on the street. The presence of firearms by itself doesn't make the job more dangerious IMHO.

    I could hypothosize that the game warden is MORE safe BECAUSE he knows everyone he encounters will be armed. But I wouldn't SAY that as fact without statistics to back it up.

    The job may be dangerous but I would prefer solid statistics compared to regular LEO before just making assumptions and throwing out hyperbole.

    I don't have a problem with wardens although I question some of the extra authority given to them.

    But, these kind of unsubstantiated statements are the same thing used by anti-gunners to maintain fear of guns and I take the posters statement in the same context without 'source and statistics' to back it up.

    I see another poster was kind enough to post an associated article which I have not had the time to read.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    my point about Wardens is that the majority of the people they come across are law abiding citizens.
    Do you have the stats for that?

    I would agree their job is very dangerous by nature of the environment in which they work. But you see how asking for such stats leaves no room for civil discussion without it working both ways.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  15. #45
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    Do you have the stats for that?

    I would agree their job is very dangerous by nature of the environment in which they work. But you see how asking for such stats leaves no room for civil discussion without it working both ways.
    Would the number of hunting licenses issued vs. citations in a given period suffice for you? Since every person a warden speaks with in a given day is not documented then it's a difficult stat to track but I think you can say that:
    Since Game Wardens do not write citations or perform arrests on more than 50% of the people they speak to in a day, that "the majority of people they come in contact with are law abiding citizens."
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

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