Stephen Hunter on the SEAL snipers who killed the pirates

This is a discussion on Stephen Hunter on the SEAL snipers who killed the pirates within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Agreed Sixto...Most often they are mall ninja 'Futureweapons' he's not whispering that's talking tactical type garbage. This series though is a very much notable exception ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 32

Thread: Stephen Hunter on the SEAL snipers who killed the pirates

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Agreed Sixto...Most often they are mall ninja 'Futureweapons' he's not whispering that's talking tactical type garbage.
    This series though is a very much notable exception that I believe you will appreciate and enjoy, as I did.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA
    Posts
    5,127
    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Hey! Does this make the SEALs "green" compliant? They did lower CO2 levels afterall
    Good thing this didn't happen in a National Park. The lead contamination would have cost millions in abatement.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  4. #18
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    1,726
    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I've got several of above mentioned weapons and I shoot the .50 BMG rifles quite a bit. I did experience some eye trouble, a partial retinal separation that resulted in a bubble of fluid which caused the images to focus on something like a secondary lens, which totally hosed up the sight in my eye. I was seeing different shades of light with each eye and it was like I had a spot the size of a quarter out of focus on everything that I looked at.

    So I went to an Ophthalmologist and did some laser scan and pinpointed the cause. He asked me if I had had any head injuries or got any sharp blows to the head in which I replied negative. He is a hunter and collects guns and he asked me if I shot alot, which I do. We got to talking and he thinks the recoil of the BMG's is what done it. He said that he has had several cases of retinal separation due to high recoil rifles.

    Luckily it will heal by itself over a period of several months, barring further "jarring" of it.

    I said that to say that it is entirely possible that retina separation can be a factor, especially with extensive shooting. Most people wont shoot a .50 much, I would tend to shoot anywhere from 50 to 100 shots every time I went out.
    Wow, I wasn't even aware this could be an issue. Glad I came here!

    And I agree, the sniper really does seem to be a special breed among already extraordinary men. They also seem to require a special mindset, the ability to work isolated deep in enemy territory, etc.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array sass20485's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central FL
    Posts
    2,093
    One of good friends has a son that is a Marine sniper over in the sandboxright now. He trained intensely to get that job. Glad these guys are on our side!!

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,954
    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Sixto,

    For reinforcement toward your view and what is now today becoming a much better understood point of function fact in regard to semi-automatic action accurized rifles being more overall purposeful than that of a bolt action, with same reliability, you should seek out and watch this _excellent_ recent feature by the Discovery/Military channel...

    'Top Sniper'
    Top Sniper :: Military Channel
    Top Sniper - AOL Video

    The latest version of this piece was broadcast this past March 24th and 25th cross four parts titled; "Science", "Long Range", "Urban Combat", and "Science".
    The feature is a training event as well as a competition including not just military operators new and seasoned too but a civilian law enforcement officer team as well as operators from three foreign government NATO partners.

    I've seen a fair amount of features on this subject but by far this specific piece is the best of the best and for a number of reasons which will become evident upon actually watching the series.
    All manner of hardware and action types are used in this peieceby the participants including not one but three different semi-automatic systems including the SR-25 and for the civilian LEOs an accurized with match grade barrel M4 (reason being they used what they would most likely have access to while on patrol and on short notice to a call out).
    You will per your profession find this piece to be useful and informative.

    Upon reading Hunter's piece the Discovery channel feature contradicts him in one one specific point and that is toward firing in unison as opposed to in series.
    There is and in the feature was specific reference and training to being able to do as much and ironically the scenario as described past period in the feature pretty much mirrors this real world situation.

    The Discovery/Military channel piece is excellent.
    So much so that I've kept in on my DVR and plan to archive them to DVD.

    - Janq

    P.S. - I started to not tell you this so as to not give away the ending but suffice it to say it becomes exceedingly clear just midway through to all of the participant teams and individual operators that possessing a _modern_ and accurized/match grade hardened and reliable semi-automatic action sniper rifle presents a distinct and irrefutable advantage against that of the bolt rifle, including a Remy 700 and most every other hardware flavor you can think of, in all areas of function and singular effectiveness. If the mission calls for or might have chance that more than three shots are required and to be done so over a relatively quick succession then it's today with modern arms clear that the semi-automatic beats the bolt gun hands down.
    Historically a heretical thought and statement as recent as even 10 years ago. Today though that statement as a matter of being fact is as I'd noted is proved in this series to be irrefutable, and the lesson is learned by all participant students in the series.
    Thanks for posting the links-Fantastic!!!
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    664
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    An interesting commentary, it sounds as if the author has at least a little knowledge on the subject.

    As a LE sharpshooter, I can say that a lot of the points made in the article rang true of my own thoughts as this unfolded. I'm not nor never was a military sniper, but most of the tactics I use in the civilian world and the training received are one in the same. I can't speak with any amount of authority on the subject of military protocol or modern sniper tactics, I can only make assumptions and educated guesses.

    One thing I found interesting was the mention of the sr25. Until recently, the bolt gun was the prefered choice of military and LE sharpshooters. I myself have moved to a modified AR-10 over the old standard PSS. I was one of the first to do so in my area. Many thought I was crazy for doing so. Its good to hear that my thinking and thought process on weapon selection is seemingly backed up by the SEALs. Who can argue with them?
    gsg-9 and the sas(from whose mold we formed 1sfg odd) have been using H&K semi auto sniper rifles for years. seems the seals and the rest of the military are a bit behind the times. but finaly catching up.

    that said thank the gods the seals were allowed to properly negotiate with the scum.
    "Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
    -Winston Churchill
    Every well-bred petty crook knows: the small concealable weapons always go to the far left of the place setting.
    -Inara, firefly

  8. #22
    Member Array flaboatbum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by United93 View Post
    50 feet - I guess that dispels the myth that all military sniping missions involve extreme range.
    I question the accuracy of that distance. That's waay too tight a towing distance for a destroyer tethered to a 28 ft lifeboat. The lifeboat would have been swerving violently in the ship's prop wash. ABC News animation (who knows how accurate that was?) showed a distance looking to be about 300 ft. Another animation showed shots through a forward window on the lifeboats cabin....no such window exists as a photo of the actual boat reveals. An original report stated that two of the pirates momentarily showed thier head & shoulders through a hatch....Pow X 2 ! That sounds credible.

    In any case, kudos to the calm, cool & collected SEALS!! A hearty Well Done.

  9. #23
    VIP Member
    Array 64zebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Panhandle of Texas
    Posts
    6,437
    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Hey! Does this make the SEALs "green" compliant? They did lower CO2 levels afterall

    LEO/CHL
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  10. #24
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    1,726
    Indeed. Was that lead ammunition? It's going to poison the entire Indian Ocean now! Won't someone think of the fish?

  11. #25
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    911
    flaboatbum - Now that you bring up the fact that the lifeboat was towed, I too question the accuracy of the stated distance. It must have been pretty short though, to have any precision on the water...

  12. #26
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036

    Long time coming

    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    The Marine Snipers name is Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock not "Hatchcock"
    Beat me to it.

    However, the part I liked was the paragraph thet began:

    He has become a kind of chivalric hero....
    A long cry from Da Nang when Whitefeather was looked down on as some sort of unethical killer.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  13. #27
    Moderator
    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    7,620
    The author does seem to have a bit of knowledge on the subject. Bolt actions still have their place, but most of the precision rifles for both designated marksmen and scout snipers (there is a difference between the two, but the job of both is precision riflework), are now semi-autos. I've got trigger time on a DM rifle, they are sweet, and have lots of nice bells and whistles that can make a shooter with good fundamentals a lot more effective.

    Especially for urban combat situations, semi-auto weapons are far superior to bolt actions, for a number of reasons.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

  14. #28
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,674
    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    Especially for urban combat situations, semi-auto weapons are far superior to bolt actions, for a number of reasons.
    Agreed, but I still love the looks I get on the rifle range when I show up with a 16" AR10 to compete with the decked out bolt guns on marksmen days... I just chuckle and tell them if they cant make the shots presented in our realm with a 16" gun, then they shouldnt be here. Some are listening now.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wichita Falls, Texas
    Posts
    1,618
    Good job to our military period. The only way to deal with terrorist.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  16. #30
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036

    Thumbs up Good OP Ed

    Ransom encourages piracy - Roanoke.com

    Even papers like the Roanoke Times may be getting it. True, this is only an OP Ed -- but we can hope.

    Ransom encourages piracy

    David H. Eisenberg

    Eisenberg is a lawyer, teacher and student of history. He lives in Buchanan.


    The rescue of Capt. Richard Phllips off the coast of Somalia ended the best way, with the brave captain safe and pirate lives lost. No ransoming. One stimulus to this booming industry we know will work is paying ransoms. Regrettably, this is too frequently tried.

    It is interesting to note that the USS Bainbridge, the ship that rescued Phillips, is named for William Bainbridge, the captain of the Philadelphia, a ship captured by Tripoli in 1803 during the First Barbary War, a war fought to stop pirate attacks by Ottoman Empire satellites on the Mediterranean coast. The Philadelphia had foundered upon a shoal in Tripoli's harbor. Capt. Bainbridge concluded they could not escape and surrendered. He and his men were taken hostage by Tripoli's Pasha. All but the officers were cruelly enslaved.

    Our Navy was fearful for the prisoners but also of the Philadelphia being put to use by the enemy. They took action. Lt. Stephen Decatur Jr., whose father had been Philadelphia's first captain, used a captured merchant ship to pull alongside the vessel. Disguised as locals, they were able to surprise the guards just as they were exposed as Americans and put the ship to the torch before safely escaping. Britain's revered Adm. Horatio Nelson called it "the most bold and daring act of the age." Decatur became a national hero.

    But the mission did not free the American hostages or solve the problems. William Eaton, a remarkable and multitalented diplomat understood that to neutralize the Pasha we had to show him that we could and would destroy him. Capitalizing on vague orders from President Jefferson, Eaton organized an international rag tag army, made himself general, crossed hundreds of miles of desert under murderous conditions, captured the city of Derna with the help of our navy and set up the Pasha's worthless brother, Hamet, as de facto ruler. He intended to march on Tripoli. It frightened the Pasha, who appeared ready to capitulate.

    Unfortunately, without Eaton's knowledge, another American diplomat, Tobias Lear, undercut his efforts and agreed to pay a $60,000 ransom for the prisoners. The surviving hostages were freed and a treaty was signed. But Eaton was furious that American and allied lives had been lost and no permanent result attained. One of Eaton's few biographers, Samuel Edwards, quotes from Eaton's final report in his Barbary General:

    "What have we gained by the war? What benefit has accrued to the United States by the suffering of the Philadelphia's officers and men, six of whom died in captivity? What benefit has accrued to the United States by the death of two members of the Marine Corps who accompanied the Bey Hamet on his march to Derna? These dead, and the noble Europeans and Africans who joined hands with us in a noble enterprise -- and who lost their lives in that effort -- cry out from their shallow graves for justice."

    Eaton, like Decatur, was celebrated as a hero and correctly predicted we would have to return. In 1815, Decatur did go back, this time with overwhelming force. The Bey of Algiers was given a few hours to sign a treaty, or else. The two other troublesome powers, Tunis and Tripoli, also capitulated and even paid huge indemnities. American and European prisoners were released. Although it had to be followed up the next year by an Anglo-Dutch flotilla, which bombarded Algiers, the point was made -- only force works with some people, among them pirates.

    Overwhelming force is also the only thing that will work with 21st century piracy. Pirates aren't statesmen and don't care about diplomacy. While our government and other nations are trying to do something, so far it has been too mild and unorganized. Like Capt. Phillips and our own heroic naval forces, the French commandos who rescued French hostages from Somali pirates the week before should also be praised, even if a hostage's life was lost.

    However, the French government first tried to ransom the hostages, as have too many others, which encourages more attacks. As Eaton and Decatur knew, we will persuade heartless pirates to seek safer employment only if we put them in fear of imminent death and back it up with action.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Hunting Season Open-Watch Out For Idiots: Hunter charged for shooting another hunter
    By JonInNY in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: November 29th, 2009, 11:37 PM
  2. College Student Killed By Deer Hunter
    By HKinNY in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: November 23rd, 2009, 11:13 AM
  3. I Met Stephen Hunter
    By AutoFan in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: March 18th, 2008, 10:12 AM
  4. New Stephen Hunter Novel
    By Captain Crunch in forum Defensive Books, Video & References
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: December 29th, 2007, 11:34 PM
  5. Stephen Hunter Movie In The Works
    By Captain Crunch in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: January 1st, 2007, 09:39 AM

Search tags for this page

pirate prisoners sniped by seal
,
seal hunter murdered
,
seal snipers kill 3 somalia pirates howlong were the snipers on the ship
,

seal snipers who killed somali pirates

,
stephen hunter barrett .50 impact
,
stephen hunter good the bad
,
stephen hunter orlando, fl
,
steve hunter orlando fl
,
steve hunter seal
Click on a term to search for related topics.