BAD: Security guard killed with own gun by shoplifter at grocery store

This is a discussion on BAD: Security guard killed with own gun by shoplifter at grocery store within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Shoplifter shoots, kills store security guard at Schnucks | ksdk.com | St. Louis, MO Shoplifter shoots, kills store security guard at Schnucks KSDK -- A ...

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Thread: BAD: Security guard killed with own gun by shoplifter at grocery store

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Thumbs down BAD: Security guard killed with own gun by shoplifter at grocery store

    Shoplifter shoots, kills store security guard at Schnucks | ksdk.com | St. Louis, MO
    Shoplifter shoots, kills store security guard at Schnucks

    KSDK -- A security guard at an East St. Louis area Schnucks has died after being shot by a suspected shoplifter Tuesday afternoon.

    The incident took place around 2:20 p.m.

    The guard had stopped the shoplifter inside the store and was in the process of taking him to the back of the building to be processed when the suspect began struggling with him. The suspect got a hold of the guard's gun and shot him.

    The suspect fled on foot and was taken into custody a short time later.

    The guard was taken to a nearby hospital where he later died.

    NewsChannel 5 will have more information on this story as it becomes available.


    KSDK

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  3. #2
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    I'm sorry for the guard's family and friends.

    I am struck by the fact that this perpetrator was facing a minor charge, but is now looking at a murder charge. Proof, if one needed it, that some people have no more rationality than a dumb animal, or maybe even less....
    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

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    Thumbs down

    What an idiot, killed that poor guy for nothing, would have been a slap on the wrist. Now he's gonna be in prison getting slapped by Bubba.
    I don't deal with psychos. I put them away. - Marion Cobretti- Cobra

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    Quote Originally Posted by falcon1 View Post
    I'm sorry for the guard's family and friends.

    I am struck by the fact that this perpetrator was facing a minor charge, but is now looking at a murder charge. Proof, if one needed it, that some people have no more rationality than a dumb animal, or maybe even less....
    If he were a rational thinking person then he'd not have been shop lifting in the first place to as a result get caught which was the catalyst toward getting into a struggle with the security person in an attempt to over power him and flee.

    Either you are or you aren't, and in this case he aint a rational thinker as based on results.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  6. #5
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    As far as the dirtbag is concerned, I'm relatively sure that this was not his first dance.

    Sorry to hear about the guard.

    (When you have to make a decision to use deadly force, remember the BG may not have a weapon, but he could get yours...disparity of force?)
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    When I was an LEO we were always reminded that at every incident we went on that there was always a gun involved,OURS
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    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Quote Originally Posted by falcon1 View Post
    I am struck by the fact that this perpetrator was facing a minor charge, but is now looking at a murder charge. Proof, if one needed it, that some people have no more rationality than a dumb animal, or maybe even less....
    Probably had warrants, was high or severely stupid. You never know who you are dealing with.

    In my time hunting shoplifters, we had a few lead the Security Officer on a foot chase behind the store. One got mobbed, the other ducked a well placed shot and retreated.

    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    When I was an LEO we were always reminded that at every incident we went on that there was always a gun involved,OURS
    Yep. I've arrested close to 200 shoplifters. Most while plainclothes, so my sidearm wasn't right where you could grab it. Every one of them was cuffed immediately, before they could decide to resist. Many had to be persuaded by physical force or threat of pepper gas.

    Updated story, Security Officer's pic, same link:

    KSDK -- A security guard was gunned down in the middle of a busy grocery store in East St. Louis. Police said he was simply trying to stop a shoplifter.

    The incident took place just after 2 p.m. at the Schnucks grocery store at 25th and State streets.

    Authorities said the suspect overpowered the security guard and grabbed his gun. And friends said Wayne Groom wouldn't have gone down without a fight. While Groom was small in stature, standing only 5'2", his friends said he was tall in spirit.

    "Whoever did this, they didn't have a conscience," said Richard Sellers, Groom's friend. "They didn't have a state of being. They weren't thinking about what they were doing."

    When the shooting happened, the grocery store was full. Witnesses heard the chaos and commotion.

    "I was just in there shopping and all at once I heard some bang-bang," said shopper Essie Barnes. "And I said to the guy that worked in there, 'Was that a shot? And he said 'yeah.'"

    Authorities said Groom was trying to apprehend a shoplifter when the man began to struggle. In the confusion, a source said the shoplifter was able to grab the guard's own gun, using it against him. Groom suffered a gunshot wound to the head.

    "The information I was getting from the inside of the pharmacy was interrupted by loud screams from a woman. 'Oh my god somebody call 911, somebody call 911,' like that," said shopper Gerald Neal.

    Lt. Jim Morrisey, an Illinois State Police spokesman, said Groom was rushed to a local hospital where he died a short time later.

    "The suspect fled the scene and was later apprehended. He's in custody at this time," Morrisey said.

    Wayne Groom was employed by Hamilton Security. Friends said he took great pride in his work and great pride in keeping people safe.

    "You can take away but you can't bring back," Sellers said. "It tears me apart because, like I said, he was a good guy; he was a good dad, big heart."

    "He was doing his job and trying to do what he could do to save other citizens from, what would have happened if he wouldn't have been there."

    Authorities have not yet released information on the suspect. The Schnuck's store was closed for the day, but will reopen on schedule at 7 a.m. Wednesday.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Weapon retention is likely to be a losing proposition for someone who is nearly four standard deviations below the mean. Even if they are a match in strength with an average sized opponent, they are seriously disadvantaged in terms of reach and leverage. The security guard had almost no chance against his nineteen years younger (and probably stronger and taller) killer.

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    Sad for the guard and his family and friends. The shoplifter was only shoplifting this time ,but obviously wouldn't hesitate to do more serious crimes,as evidenced by this murder. Wouldn't surprise me if it's not his first. Nothing against short people, but a guy that's only 5'2 ,is way more often than not ,going to be over-matched in a physical confrontation. Maybe a guy that small shouldn't be working alone in that type of job.

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    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    I wonder how much HTH defensive retention training he had or even weapons training period. Sad...some lessons learned though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SYKO View Post
    What an idiot, killed that poor guy for nothing, would have been a slap on the wrist. Now he's gonna be in prison getting slapped by Bubba.
    I seriously doubt that this was this scubags first rodeo. To commit murder for a shoplifting charge, I'll wager he had records and warrants for alot more serious things than shoplifting. I hope Bubba spanks him and spanks him hard.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array Rmac58's Avatar
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    My thoughts and prayers go out to Mr. Groom's family, friends and co-workers.

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    mkh
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rmac58 View Post
    My thoughts and prayers go out to Mr. Groom's family, friends and co-workers.
    +1


    Most of us CC and have situational awareness that we think about all of the time. We think about how to handle a situation if it occurs. We tend to think that drawing the weapon will instantly resolve any situation.

    Learn from this.

    Few of us give much thought to weapon retention. Let's keep Wayne's memory alive by adding weapon retention to the list of things we think about and practice.

  15. #14
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    Sad to hear.

    I understand the point about weapon retention, and certainly, every CCer should get training; however, keep in mind that we do not arrest anyone. The guard was taking someone to the back and that someone started resisting. If you are CCing as a private citizen, the likelihood of someone singling you out to grab your weapon isn't as high as a security guard or LEO escorting someone right next to them.

  16. #15
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Very sad.

    IMO, security guards likely to have to go 'hands on' fairly often should get good training in unarmed combat. If they are armed, add some weapon retention instruction.
    Of course, there will aways be someone bigger and stronger, etc., but that should not become an argument for indolence and lack of propper training.

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