Bad - Shooter arrested for killing man breaking into his car

Bad - Shooter arrested for killing man breaking into his car

This is a discussion on Bad - Shooter arrested for killing man breaking into his car within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Justified or not, you decide http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/new...3146/#comments Richmond police: Man shot on Leigh Street was breaking into car; shooter arrested By Staff Reports Published: April 23, ...

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Thread: Bad - Shooter arrested for killing man breaking into his car

  1. #1
    Member Array tag's Avatar
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    Bad - Shooter arrested for killing man breaking into his car

    Justified or not, you decide

    http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/new...3146/#comments


    Richmond police: Man shot on Leigh Street was breaking into car; shooter arrested
    By Staff Reports

    Published: April 23, 2009

    Richmond police say they have arrested the man who fatally shot another man trying to break into an auto in the 2100 block of East Leigh Street about 4:30 p.m. on Wednesday.

    They have charged Eric G. Driver, Jr., 25, of the 500 block of North 22nd St., with second degree murder and use of a firearm in the commission of a felony, police said.

    Police identified the dead man as Jamal Holman, 24, who was taken to VCU Medical Center, where he expired.

    Holman "had broken into a vehicle" and Driver confronted him, police spokesman James Mercante said in a release. This "led to an altercation resulting in the shooting of Holman," Mercante said.

    Victims' advocate Alicia Rasin, who lives in the area, said she heard the gunshots and thought it was a car backfiring.

    "It was very shocking for me to drive up on it, to see somebody lying there," she said.

    Rasin said it was the first time someone has been killed in the area in the more than 50 years that she has been living there.

    "It's peaceful. The neighbors get along with each other," Rasin said. "This was very shocking but very sad. I don't know what happened, but I feel as a Christian I still have to pray for that young man, pray for them all."

    Anyone with information is asked to call the Richmond Police Tip Line at (804) 514-TIPS or Metro Richmond Crime Stoppers at (804) 780-1000. -- Melodie Martin
    YOU are the weapon, your firearm is just a tool!


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array BradyM77's Avatar
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    That is sad, I know if I saw somebody trying to steal my car I would WANT to stop them. But would I? Not with 3 kids in the house. I would call the cops and maybe shine a light on the BG then at the phone in my hand. I would just hope he doesn't find out about the bad brakes until it's too late!
    "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Bart Simpson

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    Jurisdiction makes such a difference. When I was an LEO in New Mexico, I remember an arrestee escaping custody while at a local hospital. Later that day he was shot by a homeowner while trying to steal a car. He didn't die, but the shooter wasn't prosecuted either. More recently in Albuquerque, an Iraqi veteran chased a burglar for several blocks and shot him dead after the burglar threatened to come back and kill his family. Even the Govenor stepped in on this one after a judge sentenced the shooter to prison, as did the state AG and several lawmakers.
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Too many details are missing.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Not enough info, but dosn't sound like a good shoot to me.

    Driver escalated the situation by confronting the BG......leading up to the BG being shot. A phone call, plate numbers, and direction of travel 'should' be enough. Insurence can handle the rest.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    Too many details are missing.
    Agreed.

    No conclusion can be made as based on what is offered by this article singular.
    Possibly in this state lethal use of force toward defense or recovery of _property_ is not recognized as being justifiable.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  8. #8
    Member Array Uechi's Avatar
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    You can't shoot someone for trying to steal your car not unless he pulled a gun or a knife or there was some other disparate reason you felt your life was threatened. Can't do it when your on the outside. If you had been inside the car i.e. a car jacking I think he would have been justified if he felt threatened. When your inside your car it's the same as being in your house " Castle Doctrine", at least in Florida. I do agree not enough info for a good decision.

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Depends on what happened when he "confronted" him. In NC, if you are the instigator and it escalated to the use of deadly force, you're liable. But we don't have Citizen's Arrest here either, which seems pretty screwed up to me.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    I wonder if the BG was trying to get away...the GG attempted to stop him...altercation ensued...GG shot him.

    Either way...2nd degree murder? Pretty heavy...with plea or not...still big bucks cost for a lawyer.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    Depends on what happened when he "confronted" him. In NC, if you are the instigator and it escalated to the use of deadly force, you're liable. But we don't have Citizen's Arrest here either, which seems pretty screwed up to me.
    NC allows detention. The difference between detention and arrest is that arrest includes moving them (which would be kidnapping absent citizens arrest). What most people think of as citizens arrest is actually detention - holding the suspect until police arrive.

    States that allow arrest give you the option of taking them to the police - something most citizens arrest advocates such as myself do not recommend.

    Here's a currently running thread: http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...itizens+arrest

    And an old (closed one): http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ns-arrest.html

    Florida is another oddity - they have no law that specifically enumerates the right to make a citizens arrest or detain anyone. Common law allows citizens arrest and is supported by Floridas higher courts though.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    NC allows detention. The difference between detention and arrest is that arrest includes moving them (which would be kidnapping absent citizens arrest). What most people think of as citizens arrest is actually detention - holding the suspect until police arrive.

    States that allow arrest give you the option of taking them to the police - something even citizens arrest advocates such as myself do not recommend.
    Oh! Okay, that makes more sense then. Thanks for explaining that to me. I was having a hard time with all the legalese on the handout.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    If your going to play the game you have to know the rules.
    Bingo.
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    Way too many questions left unanswered in the article.

    Did the defender own the car?
    Was the defender IN the car?
    Did the defender surprise the thief? and did the thief respond with violence or even a threat of violence?
    Did the defender attempt to make a citizen's arrest?
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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  15. #15
    Ex Member Array SPACE COWBOY's Avatar
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    In texas....

    PC:9.42 DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.
    A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
    (1)if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
    (a)to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, BURGLARY, ROBBERY, aggravated robbery, THEFT DURING THE NIGHTTIME, OR CRIMINAL MISCHIEF DURING THE NIGHT TIME...

    It goes on and on, but bottom line, in TEXAS it's a clean shoot (given the little bit of information we were given) If the BG attempted to flee and the GG shoots, not a clean shoot! Mostly I would agree with the esteemed minds who spoke before. NOT ENOUGH INFORMATION!

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