GOOD: Robbery foiled by off-duty cop but then a CCW drew on the cop...

GOOD: Robbery foiled by off-duty cop but then a CCW drew on the cop...

This is a discussion on GOOD: Robbery foiled by off-duty cop but then a CCW drew on the cop... within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I didn't know you could get a CCW in NYC! Robbery at Brooklyn auto shop foiled by off-duty cop Robbery at Brooklyn auto shop foiled ...

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Thread: GOOD: Robbery foiled by off-duty cop but then a CCW drew on the cop...

  1. #1
    Member Array razz's Avatar
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    Thumbs up GOOD: Robbery foiled by off-duty cop but then a CCW drew on the cop...

    I didn't know you could get a CCW in NYC!




    Robbery at Brooklyn auto shop foiled by off-duty cop

    Robbery at Brooklyn auto shop foiled by off-duty cop

    BY Matthew Lysiak, Alison Gendar and Wil Cruz
    DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

    Sunday, May 10th 2009, 4:00 AM

    Off-duty cop Ray Willaims speaks to fellow police officers after gunning down an armed robber at a Brooklyn auto shop.

    An off-duty cop shot and killed an armed robber during a brazen stickup in a Brooklyn auto shop Saturday, police and witnesses said.

    Ray Williams, 49, was getting his 1998 Lexus repaired at Mel's Auto Specialist in East Flatbush when two men walked in and asked for a used car battery, witnesses said. One of the men, his hand palming a concealed .45-caliber handgun, pulled out the weapon and announced a robbery, sources said.

    "Everybody get on the ground! Everybody get on the ground!" the gunman yelled, a witness told the Daily News.

    The stunned customers and a manager froze. A moment later, Williams, a narcotics detective, identified himself and drew his gun.

    That's when the bullets started flying at the E. 42nd St. shop. It was unclear who shot first, police said.

    Williams was on target, hitting the gunman in the neck, police said.

    "I heard a gunshot, and the [suspect] was laying in a pool of blood," said Nigel, 38, a customer in the store who didn't want to give his last name.

    The second robber picked up his partner's gun and continued spraying bullets.

    "Shots were flying," said Glen, a witness who also gave only his first name. "They were shooting like crazy."

    His clip empty, the gunman ran off and hopped into a white Chevy TrailBlazer. Williams, with gun in hand, gave chase - but encountered another man with a weapon.

    "Drop your gun now!" the man ordered Williams.

    The pistol-wielding gunman turned out to be a good Samaritan - with a license to carry a weapon - who came to check on the gunfire.

    "I'm a cop! I'm a cop!" Williams assured him.

    The confusion could have been deadly, one police source pointed out.


    "The detective was in the middle of a nightmare," said the source. "He comes out after a gun battle and confronts this guy. Luckily, both showed restraint. They could have shot each other by mistake."

    The second suspect was still being sought Saturday night. Police haven't released the dead man's name.

    Late Saturday, police were combing the crime scene, which was littered with at least 14 shell casings. Williams was taken to Kings County Hospital for trauma and given a Breathalyzer test, which he passed.

    Witnesses, meanwhile, said Williams, who has been a cop since 1992, probably saved some lives.

    "That man [the robber] would have killed every last one if that [cop] hadn't pulled the trigger," said Joseph Garcia, 61, who lives across the street from the auto shop.


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Case for being a good witness and not trying to make a citizens arrest. I think they covered this scenario in my CCW class...
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  3. #3
    EW3
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    I love how the first thing they make a NY cop do is a Breathalyzer. You're a hero, now come with me and breathe into this since you're guilty until proven innocent, pal.
    "Naked and Starving as They are We Cannot Enough Admire the Incomparable Patience and Fidelity of the Soldiery" George Washington, Valley Forge, 1777.

  4. #4
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    Running into the sound of gunfire scenario in not a wise thing to do...
    Now being personally involved with such a scenario, one would have been able to identify the players, and even then it is questionable as to what one should do.
    Fortunately, it turned out well for all concerned...except one dirtbag got away.
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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    Case for being a good witness and not trying to make a citizens arrest. I think they covered this scenario in my CCW class...
    Agreed.

    What did the CCW guy think he was going to do, exactly?
    Bust in on the multi gun shoot out and tell them all to; "Drop your gun now!".

    No thanks.
    Dial 911 and sit tight to observe.

    Weird though to hear of a CCW in of all places in America, NYC.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Hey, no innocent person was injured from the original story, the LEO and the CCW had sense enough to think before shooting. I can't find any fault with this from what was posted. Not being there I am not going to judge harshly the CCW.

    Like posted already, only bad thing is one of the BG got away. Hopefully they will catch him and charge him for the crime.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Hey, no innocent person was injured from the original story, the LEO and the CCW had sense enough to think before shooting. I can't find any fault with this from what was posted. Not being there I am not going to judge harshly the CCW.

    Like posted already, only bad thing is one of the BG got away. Hopefully they will catch him and charge him for the crime.
    It's like getting in an automobile accident and while not wearing your seatbelt. Just because you weren't hurt this time, does that justify not wearing it? The CCW carrier interfiered with the lawful duties of a police officer. He did not witness a shooting, he came running and attempted to be a hero because he was empowered by the weapon on his hip.

    You can bet this won't be the last time we've heard of this story because every time an anti-CCW opportunity arises, this story will be recited before voting officials. Do you think that next time WI or IL ever tries to pass CCW may/shall issue legislation, this story will not come up in front of the state legislature?

    While this guys intentions may have been in the right place, he was flat out wrong from what I've read here so far and it reminds me of the thread where the cop wanna be pulls over a speeding motorist.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I don't see the analogy between wearing a seat belt and this scenario, but that is me.

    I wasn't there, I don't know if the good samaritan had a relationship with the shop, was an employee, a family member of one of the workers or was simply walking down the street. Neither does anyone else from this story so far. Hero, I don't know, with that reasoning, one would have to assume that any person in law enforcement or emergency responder has a hero complex as well. We all do things for different reasons whether he did it because of his morals, his civic committment or because someone was running towards him with a gun drawn, we don't know. The story is not necessarily clear as to whether the good samaritan came running towards the gunfire or as stated in this sentence.
    Williams, with gun in hand, gave chase - but encountered another man with a weapon.
    Maybe the person with the gun, (this time it happened to be a cop) running towards the good samaritan caused him to draw his gun as he was walking down the street.

    I don't necessarily care about the things the anti's use for their propaganda, just like they don't care what we use for ours when we post stories of how a CCW saved a life or what could have happened if someone in the school or wherever had been allowed to carry. If one bases their reasoning for carrying on what the opposing side thinks, your carrying for the wrong reason to start with.

    I will stick with my first post based on the information available.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Farronwolf -
    Fair enough and I'll conceed you offer some valid points.

    Either way, I think it stands as a good lesson for all of us here that things are not always as they seem. Whether it was the case in this situation or not; remember that your firearm is there for your defense alone and as a last resort when in fear for your life.

    (yea yea, and when witnessing a felony blah blah blah whatever)
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  10. #10
    Member Array packin45's Avatar
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    Kudos to the cop for what sounds like excellent shooting and judgement.

    Sounds like Captain CCW there was just looking for some action.....he must spend time posting in Defensive Scenarios. It's a good thing for him that he wasn't confronting the actual BGs....who would have ignored his demands to "drop the gun", and just dropped him.

    Quote Originally Posted by EW3
    I love how the first thing they make a NY cop do is a Breathalyzer. You're a hero, now come with me and breathe into this since you're guilty until proven innocent, pal.
    Maybe if they hadn't had so many issues with drunken NYPD and guns, they wouldn't have had to institute that policy. Locally, we have at least one or two incidents every year where a drunken Minneapolis cop shoots up the town...it's pretty common, or at least a lot more common than it should be. Besides, it's not like they get their gun confiscated, and get taken to jail, like one of us would.
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