Teenager that Killed Hiker in Washington: "Guilty, 2nd Degree"

This is a discussion on Teenager that Killed Hiker in Washington: "Guilty, 2nd Degree" within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; She was wearing a light-blue jacket and green pants when she was shot There is no way a light-blue jacket and green pants can be ...

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Thread: Teenager that Killed Hiker in Washington: "Guilty, 2nd Degree"

  1. #16
    Member Array sspargo's Avatar
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    She was wearing a light-blue jacket and green pants when she was shot
    There is no way a light-blue jacket and green pants can be mistaken for a brown or black bear.

    That is the only part of the story that leans in their favor and I could easily see the reason for that. The older kid, the one encouraging the shooter to shoot, may have known it was a person and the younger, based on the older ones "guidance" felt it safe to shoot. Once he shot, the younger one realizes what he did and that it wasn't a bear.

    Regardless, he got off easy and a crime (intentional or not) basically goes unpunished.
    "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

    DID YOU KNOW: 89.3% of all quoted statistics are fabricated

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  3. #17
    Member Array sspargo's Avatar
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    I just read another article on this that starts out,

    The two teenage brothers came running down the hill, elated because they thought they'd just shot a bear on the second day of the hunting season last August.

    They were wrong.

    The younger of the boys, then 14, had actually caught Pamela Almli in the sights of his Tikka .270-caliber rifle. The 54-year-old Snohomish County woman had been enjoying a hike on a marked trail on Sauk Mountain when she was shot in the head.
    Something sounds fishy here...

    BTW, the kid got a bench trial. He got 30 days for this...
    "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

    DID YOU KNOW: 89.3% of all quoted statistics are fabricated

  4. #18
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    Mistakes happen but... yeah they didnt ID the target obviously and should be punished in some way.
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  5. #19
    Member Array sspargo's Avatar
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    Teen hunterís testimony in manslaughter trial stirs emotions

    Bellingham, Whatcom County Local News | Bellingham Herald

    Teen hunter’s testimony in manslaughter trial stirs emotions
    Court: Boys believed Pamela Almli was a bear; both sides moved to tears

    TAHLIA GANSER - SKAGIT VALLEY HERALD

    MOUNT VERNON

    As soon as the 14-year-old hunter saw the body, his legs went limp.

    “Oh my God,” his older brother said as he peered over the trail onto the rocky area below on the slope of Sauk Mountain.

    The younger brother followed.



    “Oh my God, I just shot somebody,” his brother said, the older boy testified during Friday’s proceedings. Tyler J. Kales of Concrete is on trial for the Aug. 2 death of Pamela Almli.


    “He started breaking down,” said the defendant’s older brother, now 17. “He said his legs were getting weak.” It was the opening day of defense testimony in the trial, which already has lasted four days and will continue next week as the older brother remains on the witness stand.


    The older brother testified that both boys mistook Almli for a bear before the younger brother fired the fatal shot. After discovering Almli’s body, the two ran to their grandfather, who was sitting in his truck at the trail head waiting for the boys to return.


    The defendant’s older brother told the courtroom both he and his brother were absolutely certain they had a bear in their sights when the younger boy, now 15, pulled the trigger. The elder teen spoke softly and slowly on the witness stand. The boy’s account stirred emotions among friends and family of the defendant and the victim. Some wiped away tears.


    The older boy said the brothers saw what they thought was a bear on their way back down Sauk Mountain about 130 yards below them. He tried to use his binoculars to get a better look, but the lens was fogged with condensation.


    The mountain had been foggy, but it started to lift, the boy said. At that point there was no fog between the boys and the “bear,” the boy testified.


    “Yeah, it’s a bear,” the older brother recalled his younger brother saying as he looked through his scope.


    After they realized what they had done and the boys reached their grandfather waiting in his truck, the elder boy relayed the story.


    The older brother will continue his testimony Monday.

    Their estimate is 130 yards and "the fog had lifted". Do you realize how close 130 yards is?? No, there was no mistake!!!

    I just thought of another point, what 16 year old boy is going to stand idly by and be shown-up while allowing his 14 year old little brother pull the trigger on a trophy bear??? I'm an avid hunter and I cannot imagine EVER doing this when I was 16. I have a feeling this 16 year old knew EXACTLY what was going on.
    "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

    DID YOU KNOW: 89.3% of all quoted statistics are fabricated

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Sounds like an appropriate charge, appropriate conviction, and he should pay the appropriate price. He will be used as the "example" of what not to do , and why.

  7. #21
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    There is no way you can't make out two humans at 130 yards with a 3x scope, I can make out 2 humans at 130 yards without a scope or binoculars even if they are on a hiking path. If the conditions were so bad that they could not see clearly with the binoculars they never should have taken a shot. A single shot to the head is either a really inaccurate shot gone horribly wrong or a very well aimed shot. A minimum of negligent homicide or whatever it would be called, 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. He may not have meant to shoot her (I have my doubts with evidence presented), but deciding to discharge a firearm brings with it a large amount of responsibility.

    Just noticed he was found guilty of 2nd degree. Maybe he should get more than 30 days, if you have accepted the right to carry a firearm and do so you should be aware of the consequences (positive and negative) that can come when you pull the trigger, even at 14. Of course I don't know what the standard is if a hunter shoots another hunter. Do they get a few months?
    Last edited by fogish; June 5th, 2009 at 10:50 AM. Reason: I didn't read the whole "Guilty, 2nd Degree" thing.
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  8. #22
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    I’m not a hunter and I have seldom gone camping, albeit my military service. In this case, and the manner it's been presented, its apparent the youth believed his life was in danger and he acted upon advice from a third party. Personally, I believe the court ruled responsibly in this case.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Since when did bears wear blue rain gear?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Today I sent an e-mail to the administrators of Basic Hunter Education for the states of MA and NH as well as the Director of the USFWS NE Region HdQ, all of whom I work with as a volunteer instructor across multiple concentrations including Basic Hunter Ed (BHE).

    I featured not just the OPs posting but also an adjunct to this event that was featured at the same paper dating back to August 2008:

    Originally published Wednesday, August 6, 2008 at 12:00 AM
    "Matter of time" until a hiker got shot
    With the way hikers and hunters share the same backwoods and the same trails, it was only a matter of time before an accident like the one last weekend that killed 54-year-old Pamela Almli, mistaken for a bear by a 14-year-old boy, a Snohomish County sheriff's deputy said.
    By Christine Clarridge
    Seattle Times staff reporter
    Local News | "Matter of time" until a hiker got shot | Seattle Times Newspaper
    In my e-mail I stated the following;
    The following story as a matter of adjudication is a recent and real world item that we might wish to share with students following the showing of the firearm practices safety video.
    An incredibly unfortunate though very much preventable situation that could have very easily been avoided by all persons involved...

    Lessons to be learned:
    + When in the woods during _any_ season for whatever reason be one a hunter or a hiker, do wear some hunter/blaze orange so as to readily and distinctively identify yourself as not being game.
    - Had even one of the two women hiking, who per the [August 2008 story] state they knew it was hunting season, done so then this would have been avoided.

    + Always invest in proper and good gear, as well as tech it for function prior to departing not during the hunt or whilst in the field.
    - Had the boys been using a weather resistant and fog proof quality binocular, spotting scope, or even monocular they would have been better able to positively identify what they believed to be game, as being actual game.

    + Do not fire on to game through cover.
    - Had the boys seen our 'Shoot / Don't Shoot' video they would know that anyone can appear to be anything as when viewed at even a moderate distance through cover such as foliage, regardless of what coloration they might be wearing be it black, blue, green or even orange.

    Several other errors were made as well but these three are the primary and key items.
    Had any one of the above been known and adhered too there would have been no story, no loss of life, and no negative reflection to reinforce the views as detailed in the August 6, 2008 time frame report.
    - Janq
    BHE and Firearm Safety Instructor
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #25
    Member Array sspargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saber View Post
    Iím not a hunter and I have seldom gone camping, albeit my military service. In this case, and the manner it's been presented, its apparent the youth believed his life was in danger and he acted upon advice from a third party. Personally, I believe the court ruled responsibly in this case.
    Regards,
    I don't see the connection to feeling his life was in danger. He was bear hunting and the "bear" was 130 yards away. This was clearly a case of murder and the little ***** is gonna get off with 30 days. I just checked out he and some of his friends on MySpace (his page is private), seems they were yuckin' together it up only weeks after this tragedy.

    The only clear thing about this case is that his parents raised two murderers, the DA is clearly incompetent, and the judge needs to go to work for Walmart. I don't know, Walmart may be too complex for this judge.

    I'll say it now, remember these kids names, you WILL read about them later because they WILL kill again. They've just learned how easy it is to get off with murder and the consequences will be worth it to them.

    My, what a screwed up world we're living in.
    "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

    DID YOU KNOW: 89.3% of all quoted statistics are fabricated

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    These kids are kind of young to be turned loose with a a hunting rifle and without parent supervision. The hikers should have been wearing red especially with it being hunting season. Where were their parents? Sense when do you use a scope to identify game instead of a pair binoculars? This is a very sad tragedy due to the lack of common sense and proper training.

  13. #27
    Member Array sspargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    The hikers should have been wearing red especially with it being hunting season.
    I am a hunter. EVERY TIME I go into the woods I am wearing blaze orange unless is isn't hunting season for any game. In NC, there is no closed season for coyotes and beaver so that means I'm ALWAYS wearing blaze orange in the woods of NC. It was early bear season and the hikers were aware of it so therefore I agree and preferably they would have been wearing blaze orange but given the colors that they were wearing (green and light-blue not brown or black), I don't believe it would have made any difference. These boys, or at least one of the two, knew exactly what they were doing.


    That being said, I have taken many successful shots at medium to large game animals at distances greater than 150 yards WITHOUT a scope. I have taken very small animals at the same distances with scopes similar to the magnification power used in this shooting. To avoid the embarrassment of missing, this is not the norm. My point however is that it is very easy to see the differences in a person and a bear at 100, 200 and even 300 yards WITHOUT a scope or binoculars even if they were wearing brown or black. I'm not buying their story.
    "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

    DID YOU KNOW: 89.3% of all quoted statistics are fabricated

  14. #28
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    A woman mistaken for a bear while wearing blue rain gear? Not bloody likely!! I agree with sspargo in that it's not difficult to identify an animal versus a person at distances greater than that of this shooting.
    I've hunted all my life and never saw someone that I thought was an animal. Here in Montana, the legal age for one to hunt alone is 14. It's not uncommon for high-school kids (15-18 yoa) to go out after school gets out and try to bag something before it gets too dark.
    I just don't buy that they thought she was a bear. These youngsters need to get more than just 30-days of punishment for what they did.
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  15. #29
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    Nowhere in that story did I see where the kid had to take the shot. If I was on the jury, I would not be sending anyone home for supper any time soon. Iím just not big on so called accidents.

  16. #30
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    None of us reading this tragic story was there, and I would not trust a newspaper article which can be read in under two minutes to reveal all the FACTS of the case. Some posters here seem to equate these women being on a hiking trail with being out in the open... but we don't know if the trail was on a hillside, or under a canopy of trees, or what. We don't know the lighting conditions. No one seems to have picked up on the dead woman taking off her blue shell in order to remove a black sweatshirt... I bet that didn't happen in the blink of an eye, so did the boys see an erect black figure moving and incorrectly identify that as a bear?

    Clearly, lots of mistakes here, and for one I'm aghast that a parent or guardian would turn two youths loose to hunt without supervision in an area shared by the public. I'm likewise aghast that the allegedly "experienced hiker and sportswoman" victim would be so naiive as to hike without blaze orange in woods shared with hunters in hunting season.

    I don't think justice will be served by putting the kid in jail.

    In CT we had a related case about 15 years ago. A jogger in a dark blue running outfit was killed by a deer hunter on public watershed property open to hunting by permit. Much was made about the hunter mis-identifying what he was shooting at, but the hunter testified he knew he had a deer in his sights when he shot. Too much circumstantial evidence and a convincing prosecutor overwhelmed the jury, and the hunter did prison time. What never made it into evidence was that a few days after the jogger was killed, conservation officers found the deer the guy most likely shot with a through-and-through slug wound. According to my DEP source at the time, the prosecutor wasn't interested in the story of the slug passing through the deer and killing the jogger since it didn't fit his conclusion.

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